Joined: Sep 04 2005 Posts: 1111 Location: In the land of wishful thinking once more. Patiently waiting for our time to finally arrive.
EtonStreetRifle wrote:I understand that most supporters are dispirited and the rhetoric of a poor team adversely affecting the clubs finances. However, no club is up there forever (see Leeds and Rover's, each at the opposite end of the cycle). Isn't it our job as supporters to back our club and team in order to ensure that the return to on field success is achievable and sustainable?
It's individual choice but personally, after becoming a supporter as recently as 1970, I'm black and white in any kind of weather!!
You are right, in that all clubs in all sports, need supporters to stick with them, through good times and bad. No club survives without fans, they are their paying audience effectively, just as any business in any sector cannot survive without support from a paying public (see the collapse of various retail outfits in recent years).
As far as our fanbase goes, I think there is a fairly hard-headed realism about where we are at right now. It goes without saying that the club has made a number of wrong decisions, in numerous areas, over the past five years, and we are now reaping the consequences of said decisions.
Reading any of the posts from various supporters on this board, it is obvious that we are all aware that the club has dug a hole for itself, and that to get out of it is going to take a lot of hard work to rectify errors and mistakes made since 2017. Even the self-confessed optimists acknowledge that it will take a good deal more than simply making a couple of changes to the first-team squad to make us a competitive top-six side again!
Supporters have their part to play, no doubt, but patience is wearing thin amongst the fanbase as a whole, after a succession of years in which we were told all will be better this time next year ( said Del-Boy!!!). Most people who post on this board are most likely a part of the club's hardcore fanbase, probably over many years even decades in cases, and are the people who will stick by the club come what may.
So, yes, supporters do have their part to play, it just most of us are only too aware of the mess we have got ourselves into, largely of our own making, including yourself no doubt?
I've been on the internet and have already got a sense of the fans' passion for the club. They are very fanatical - Peter Gentle 12th September 2011.
Money doesn't talk it swears, Obscenity who really cares, Propaganda all is phony.
I'm the son and heir of a shyness which is criminally vulgar.
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way.
A man who lives in hell can still aspire to heaven.
BP1 wrote:You are right, in that all clubs in all sports, need supporters to stick with them, through good times and bad. No club survives without fans, they are their paying audience effectively, just as any business in any sector cannot survive without support from a paying public (see the collapse of various retail outfits in recent years).
As far as our fanbase goes, I think there is a fairly hard-headed realism about where we are at right now. It goes without saying that the club has made a number of wrong decisions, in numerous areas, over the past five years, and we are now reaping the consequences of said decisions.
Reading any of the posts from various supporters on this board, it is obvious that we are all aware that the club has dug a hole for itself, and that to get out of it is going to take a lot of hard work to rectify errors and mistakes made since 2017. Even the self-confessed optimists acknowledge that it will take a good deal more than simply making a couple of changes to the first-team squad to make us a competitive top-six side again!
Supporters have their part to play, no doubt, but patience is wearing thin amongst the fanbase as a whole, after a succession of years in which we were told all will be better this time next year ( said Del-Boy!!!). Most people who post on this board are most likely a part of the club's hardcore fanbase, probably over many years even decades in cases, and are the people who will stick by the club come what may.
So, yes, supporters do have their part to play, it just most of us are only too aware of the mess we have got ourselves into, largely of our own making, including yourself no doubt?
There's no doubt that the club has got itself into this state through mismanagement. Supporters should be a critical friend, airing concerns but maintaining support throughout difficult times. As you say, most on here are stalwarts and it is the likes of us that need to build a platform for success with a "we'll support you evermore attitude". It's always darkest before the dawn!
BP1 wrote:You are right, in that all clubs in all sports, need supporters to stick with them, through good times and bad. No club survives without fans, they are their paying audience effectively, just as any business in any sector cannot survive without support from a paying public (see the collapse of various retail outfits in recent years).
As far as our fanbase goes, I think there is a fairly hard-headed realism about where we are at right now. It goes without saying that the club has made a number of wrong decisions, in numerous areas, over the past five years, and we are now reaping the consequences of said decisions.
Reading any of the posts from various supporters on this board, it is obvious that we are all aware that the club has dug a hole for itself, and that to get out of it is going to take a lot of hard work to rectify errors and mistakes made since 2017. Even the self-confessed optimists acknowledge that it will take a good deal more than simply making a couple of changes to the first-team squad to make us a competitive top-six side again!
Supporters have their part to play, no doubt, but patience is wearing thin amongst the fanbase as a whole, after a succession of years in which we were told all will be better this time next year ( said Del-Boy!!!). Most people who post on this board are most likely a part of the club's hardcore fanbase, probably over many years even decades in cases, and are the people who will stick by the club come what may.
So, yes, supporters do have their part to play, it just most of us are only too aware of the mess we have got ourselves into, largely of our own making, including yourself no doubt?
For me it comes down to the level of entertainment and its been a long time since ive felt consistently entertained. Handing over approx. £300 to get about £100 back (season always ends a month or two early and boring loop games) has got very dull. The atmosphere in the stands is poor, you go to sit in a half empty ground just to moan for 2 hours and there are simply better things to do with my time. Even the pre match music and entertainment is groundhog day, yesterdays game could have been in 2018 its a complete timewarp.
Its one more pass for me, we've had the clearout, Smith will have his team, if things arent on the up after that then it never will be.
Mrs Barista wrote:Just looked at the Tribal accounts - not pretty. Also Hudgell no longer a director, registered office is MKM now.
Hmm interesting, so Pearson will soon have no other income at all?
Never went to either venue but in fairness to all involved the Fruit Market one opended right at the end of 2019 and we all kmow what happened next. Plus whats happened to the economy could not have been predicted in 2018/2019 when they dreamt this up.
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12647 Location: Leicestershire.
EtonStreetRifle wrote:There's no doubt that the club has got itself into this state through mismanagement.
I’m sure mistakes have been made, but I think the underlying factors were largely beyond the control of those managing the club.
Hull seem to have been hit harder than other clubs by the economic impact of COVID… as I understand it they were tracking okay before that, financially. Compounded by being in a stadium that once provided a huge boost but that now feels too big and therefore expensive… which isn’t really anybody’s fault and about which there’s not much that can be done.
From Pearson’s perspective, based on what he said last year, it’s arguably success just not to have gone under.
It’s not like Saints (for example) are brilliantly managed. McManus just has a lot of money.
Forwards win games, backs decide by how many. Over the longer term though, it is mostly about money.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Mild Rover wrote:I’m sure mistakes have been made, but I think the underlying factors were largely beyond the control of those managing the club.
Hull seem to have been hit harder than other clubs by the economic impact of COVID… as I understand it they were tracking okay before that, financially. Compounded by being in a stadium that once provided a huge boost but that now feels too big and therefore expensive… which isn’t really anybody’s fault and about which there’s not much that can be done.
From Pearson’s perspective, based on what he said last year, it’s arguably success just not to have gone under.
It’s not like Saints (for example) are brilliantly managed. McManus just has a lot of money.
Forwards win games, backs decide by how many. Over the longer term though, it is mostly about money.
I know their are ways of manipulating the salary cap but it is still a salary capped sport and while I agree that a clubs finances play a major part in their chance of success, there are obviously lots of other factors. We need some innovation and play to our strengths, recognise our weaknesses and plan accordingly. For instance;
1. We play in the best stadium in the league but just complain that it is too big and expensive when we should be working with partners to utilise the resource effectively. Get our backsides of them seats and start giving it some Threepenny Stands!
2. We have one of the largest fan bases in the league but don't work hard enough at recognising the value of it, nurturing and building it (ref point 1). Build a strong supporters group that feels valued and included.
3. We have one of the most respected coaches in the game, he must be backed. If finances don't allow big name signings, work to attract players that want to work under him for self improvement (eg Clifford, Walker and Minchella, Abdul et al when he was across the river).
4. If Mr Pearson no longer has the stomach or the pockets for the job (although I think he has), investigate ways of providing him some assistance.
5. Our tradition and heritage is second to none. While I'm a firm believer in looking forwards and outwards it must be used as a platform and a driver of club culture.
Joined: Jan 26 2009 Posts: 2842 Location: The Cavern Club
EtonStreetRifle wrote:I know their are ways of manipulating the salary cap but it is still a salary capped sport and while I agree that a clubs finances play a major part in their chance of success, there are obviously lots of other factors. We need some innovation and play to our strengths, recognise our weaknesses and plan accordingly. For instance;
1. We play in the best stadium in the league but just complain that it is too big and expensive when we should be working with partners to utilise the resource effectively. Get our backsides of them seats and start giving it some Threepenny Stands!
2. We have one of the largest fan bases in the league but don't work hard enough at recognising the value of it, nurturing and building it (ref point 1). Build a strong supporters group that feels valued and included.
3. We have one of the most respected coaches in the game, he must be backed. If finances don't allow big name signings, work to attract players that want to work under him for self improvement (eg Clifford, Walker and Minchella, Abdul et al when he was across the river).
4. If Mr Pearson no longer has the stomach or the pockets for the job (although I think he has), investigate ways of providing him some assistance.
5. Our tradition and heritage is second to none. While I'm a firm believer in looking forwards and outwards it must be used as a platform and a driver of club culture.
Mild Rover wrote:I’m sure mistakes have been made, but I think the underlying factors were largely beyond the control of those managing the club.
Hull seem to have been hit harder than other clubs by the economic impact of COVID… as I understand it they were tracking okay before that, financially. Compounded by being in a stadium that once provided a huge boost but that now feels too big and therefore expensive… which isn’t really anybody’s fault and about which there’s not much that can be done.
From Pearson’s perspective, based on what he said last year, it’s arguably success just not to have gone under.
It’s not like Saints (for example) are brilliantly managed. McManus just has a lot of money.
Forwards win games, backs decide by how many. Over the longer term though, it is mostly about money.
As a Saints I have to dissagree McManus may be wealthy but Saints make a lot of money from the coperate side and we are well managed imo
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12647 Location: Leicestershire.
thesaint71 wrote:As a Saints I have to dissagree McManus may be wealthy but Saints make a lot of money from the coperate side and we are well managed imo
To be clear, I don’t think Saints are badly managed - far from it. I just think the secret sauce is money rather than an amazing culture or super academy. Again, to be clear, that’s not to say there isn’t a good culture or that your academy isn’t productive but rather that their importance is generally overstated, imo, and I don’t believe they are the key things that distinguish St Helens you from SL’s perennial also rans.
thesaint71 wrote:As a Saints I have to dissagree McManus may be wealthy but Saints make a lot of money from the coperate side and we are well managed imo
To be clear, I don’t think Saints are badly managed - far from it. I just think the secret sauce is money rather than an amazing culture or super academy. Again, to be clear, that’s not to say there isn’t a good culture or that your academy isn’t productive but rather that their importance is generally overstated, imo, and I don’t believe they are the key things that distinguish St Helens you from SL’s perennial also rans.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
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