As he has not picked up another SL club can we therefore conclude that Ellis was not, and currently is not, Super League standard and ergo our coaching department made the correct decision by his release?
Wires71 wrote:As he has not picked up another SL club can we therefore conclude that Ellis was not, and currently is not, Super League standard and ergo our coaching department made the correct decision by his release?
He will be probably playing in Super League for 2024 season for them.
Wires71 wrote:As he has not picked up another SL club can we therefore conclude that Ellis was not, and currently is not, Super League standard and ergo our coaching department made the correct decision by his release?
If that’s how it works, can we reasonably conclude that Toby King going out to clubs that a) finished above us last year, reaching a major final and, b) are currently above us and likely to finish above us, has been a colossal fluff up?
Joined: Jun 25 2006 Posts: 14012 Location: Forum21
Barbed Wire wrote:If that’s how it works, can we reasonably conclude that Toby King going out to clubs that a) finished above us last year, reaching a major final and, b) are currently above us and likely to finish above us, has been a colossal fluff up?
I see them as quite seperate. One is temporary and one is permanent for a start. King was removed due to his form and attitude according to reports at the time.
My point was that Longstaff was heralded on here as being the next great thing out of our academy, but it seems he has been unable to secure a SL berth despite a few attempts. So either the judgement on here is flawed or he has been really unlucky. Time will tell amd I wish him the best.
Wires71 wrote:I see them as quite seperate. One is temporary and one is permanent for a start. King was removed due to his form and attitude according to reports at the time.
My point was that Longstaff was heralded on here as being the next great thing out of our academy, but it seems he has been unable to secure a SL berth despite a few attempts. So either the judgement on here is flawed or he has been really unlucky. Time will tell amd I wish him the best.
We often see things differently to suit one’s narrative.
The point you made was that people were wrong who were disappointed at not seeing an academy product get a fair crack despite some positive involvements under the previous coaching staff, and ultimately who was made a scapegoat of on the back of a loss away at Hull last year. And that the coaches were right in their judgement. The whole point of your post was about judgement.
So if you’re assessing judgement. Were the coaches right on King? Or Charnley? Cooper? Hill? Clark?
I don’t need an answer, I’m merely pointing out that this isn’t the “gotcha” moment that it was portrayed as. Recruitment and retention has been a bin fire recently. We may, even through sheer dumb luck, get one right every now and again though.
Joined: Jun 25 2006 Posts: 14012 Location: Forum21
Barbed Wire wrote:We often see things differently to suit one’s narrative.
The point you made was that people were wrong who were disappointed at not seeing an academy product get a fair crack despite some positive involvements under the previous coaching staff, and ultimately who was made a scapegoat of on the back of a loss away at Hull last year. And that the coaches were right in their judgement. The whole point of your post was about judgement.
So if you’re assessing judgement. Were the coaches right on King? Or Charnley? Cooper? Hill? Clark?
I don’t need an answer, I’m merely pointing out that this isn’t the “gotcha” moment that it was portrayed as. Recruitment and retention has been a bin fire recently. We may, even through sheer dumb luck, get one right every now and again though.
I know you don't need an answer. But you did ask questions and to clarify
1. I don't have a narrative or a gotcha. The discussion point was to highlight the hype we attach to our young players with over blown assessments of their ability or potential.
2. How this assessment means we turn on the coaching staff when they don't play the young player because we think they are good enough.
3. This isn't the judgement of just our set of coaches. Presumably every recruitment department in the league has taken a look and not made a move to sign the player.
4. My view. King - yes. Charnley - no. Hill - yes. Cooper - yes. Clark - no.
5. I wish the lad well and was rooting for him to make it at Warrington.
Wires71 wrote:I know you don't need an answer. But you did ask questions and to clarify
1. I don't have a narrative or a gotcha. The discussion point was to highlight the hype we attach to our young players with over blown assessments of their ability or potential.
2. How this assessment means we turn on the coaching staff when they don't play the young player because we think they are good enough.
3. This isn't the judgement of just our set of coaches. Presumably every recruitment department in the league has taken a look and not made a move to sign the player.
4. My view. King - yes. Charnley - no. Hill - yes. Cooper - yes. Clark - no.
5. I wish the lad well and was rooting for him to make it at Warrington.
It must be my misinterpretation of your post then, and I’m sorry if that is the case. I think if anything, the fall from an exciting young product who featured a few times under Price, showing promise and gaining Knights caps, to bouncing around and on loan deals until his contract expires is a sorry reflection of the club. We all question why players from the academy don’t produce as often to top first team players at Warrington, and the handling of Longstaff is another example of what could be wrong. The same with Dean, Thewlis, Wrench etc. in recent years. They are the easy scapegoat to drop.
It’s truly frustrating to watch. And I dread to think who will be on the right wing on Sunday in the same spirit. With Minikin, Russell, Wrench and Thewlis all ultimately fighting for that place (assuming he picks Matautia, Ratchford and Ashton in the rest of the back line), the one player almost certain not to get picked is Wrench. Then likely Minikin 3rd choice. Do we then pick a brilliant young player in Thewlis, or go with Russell?
Are we set to be having the same conversation about Wrench in 2 years, if we kick him around the reserves, loans etc. and then reflect that actually he wasn’t that good after all when he lands at a championship club who lure him in with the promise of getting picked every week. And the cycle starts again.
Joined: Oct 06 2005 Posts: 2809 Location: Warrington
In terms of Longstaff (and I was a huge fan initially) we can't really blame Powell/Wire for his arrested development. Hull clearly didn't see enough to sign him on (despite some of their fans being keen) and he's barely troubled the Salford 17. 3 pretty experienced coaches can't ALL be wrong.
One thing our youngsters, particularly the forwards, seem to lack against Wigan/Saints/Leeds Academy players is size.
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