Joined: Oct 12 2005 Posts: 4231 Location: Barnsley
Egg Banjo wrote:Offering an option and asking people to do it are very different things.
They're running a short fund raising campaign, and some fans wanted to get membership but also wanted the option to spread that cost over a longer period
They aren't selling memberships, they are soliciting donations - and they are facilitating people to take loans to do so. At the end of this, the club has £1000 cash from a loan in someone else's name, and the fan has a £1200 debt. The fan also has f-all to show for it.
dboy wrote:They aren't selling memberships, they are soliciting donations - and they are facilitating people to take loans to do so. At the end of this, the club has £1000 cash from a loan in someone else's name, and the fan has a £1200 debt. The fan also has f-all to show for it.
It's distasteful to say the least.
At least you'd never catch Trinity soliciting for donations from fans for some pretend shares
dboy wrote:Wakey did not, at any time, frame it in the way that SRD have.
Wakey have not implied that you in any way "own" the club.
SRD is not, and will never be, a supporter owned club under the terms of the scheme they are running now,
Quite so, it is unreasonable for people to buy shares in a club thinking it would mean they own shares in the club, it would be completely irresponsible to suggest that selling shares and promoting the idea of being a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity would be in any way similar to what Salford are doing https://wakefieldtrinity.com/become-a-s ... d-trinity/
dboy wrote:Wakey did not, at any time, frame it in the way that SRD have.
Wakey have not implied that you in any way "own" the club.
SRD is not, and will never be, a supporter owned club under the terms of the scheme they are running now,
Quite so, it is unreasonable for people to buy shares in a club thinking it would mean they own shares in the club, it would be completely irresponsible to suggest that selling shares and promoting the idea of being a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity would be in any way similar to what Salford are doing https://wakefieldtrinity.com/become-a-s ... d-trinity/
Joined: Oct 04 2008 Posts: 21008 Location: wakefield
Egg Banjo wrote:At least you'd never catch Trinity soliciting for donations from fans for some pretend shares
Everyone who read the details knew it was a donation with a bit of preferential comms and a signature on the new stand in return. I am perfectly happy with my donation.
A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha
PopTart wrote:Everyone who read the details knew it was a donation with a bit of preferential comms and a signature on the new stand in return. I am perfectly happy with my donation.
So what is the difference between Salfords pretend shares and Trinity's pretend shares? Both teams suggest that by buying "shares" you become a "shareholder" in the club. The Trinity article was even titled "Become a Shareholder in Wakefield Trinity"
But I suppose that's the point, the ones who have "invested" in both phoney share schemes know that neither are actually worth the paper they are written on but the fans are happy to invest, or at least I'd hope so and it's not a cynical ploy from both clubs to con hard working fans from their money
Joined: Oct 12 2005 Posts: 4231 Location: Barnsley
Egg Banjo wrote:Quite so, it is unreasonable for people to buy shares in a club thinking it would mean they own shares in the club, it would be completely irresponsible to suggest that selling shares and promoting the idea of being a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity would be in any way similar to what Salford are doing https://wakefieldtrinity.com/become-a-s ... d-trinity/
So, from the link you share...
Wakefield Trinity RLFC are inviting expressions of interest from individuals who may be interested in investing in the club.
As well as inviting those with potentially large amounts to invest, the club is intending to issue “Member shares” to supporters who may be interested in investing relatively modest amounts in tranches of £500. This may appeal to those who would like to feel a sense of ownership and be closer to the activities of the club than at present but are not seeking any voting participation or financial return and do not have a desire to take an active part in the running of the club.
Member shareholders will participate in a class of shares that would not attract voting or dividend rights. Member shares are aimed at those who would like to back up their support for the club with a financial investment but without the desire to participate in the running of the club.
For those who would like a more active role within the club, we are making a separate offer of “Owner shares” available with a suggested, but not mandated, minimum subscription of £50,000.
We very much hope that many of our loyal supporters will wish to take up the opportunity to become member shareholders. For those for whom that is not possible we will continue to value your contribution in terms of tickets, merchandise, and your very special vocal support."
That last bit is especially pertinent - it doesn't say "for those for whom it is not possible, we'll facilitate a loan at 20% APR..."
Egg Banjo wrote:Quite so, it is unreasonable for people to buy shares in a club thinking it would mean they own shares in the club, it would be completely irresponsible to suggest that selling shares and promoting the idea of being a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity would be in any way similar to what Salford are doing https://wakefieldtrinity.com/become-a-s ... d-trinity/
So, from the link you share...
Wakefield Trinity RLFC are inviting expressions of interest from individuals who may be interested in investing in the club.
As well as inviting those with potentially large amounts to invest, the club is intending to issue “Member shares” to supporters who may be interested in investing relatively modest amounts in tranches of £500. This may appeal to those who would like to feel a sense of ownership and be closer to the activities of the club than at present but are not seeking any voting participation or financial return and do not have a desire to take an active part in the running of the club.
Member shareholders will participate in a class of shares that would not attract voting or dividend rights. Member shares are aimed at those who would like to back up their support for the club with a financial investment but without the desire to participate in the running of the club.
For those who would like a more active role within the club, we are making a separate offer of “Owner shares” available with a suggested, but not mandated, minimum subscription of £50,000.
We very much hope that many of our loyal supporters will wish to take up the opportunity to become member shareholders. For those for whom that is not possible we will continue to value your contribution in terms of tickets, merchandise, and your very special vocal support."
That last bit is especially pertinent - it doesn't say "for those for whom it is not possible, we'll facilitate a loan at 20% APR..."
Joined: Oct 04 2008 Posts: 21008 Location: wakefield
Egg Banjo wrote:So what is the difference between Salfords pretend shares and Trinity's pretend shares? Both teams suggest that by buying "shares" you become a "shareholder" in the club. The Trinity article was even titled "Become a Shareholder in Wakefield Trinity"
But I suppose that's the point, the ones who have "invested" in both phoney share schemes know that neither are actually worth the paper they are written on but the fans are happy to invest, or at least I'd hope so and it's not a cynical ploy from both clubs to con hard working fans from their money
If you didn't invest, why do you have such an issue with it? Wakefield were very clear about what you were paying for.
A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha
PopTart wrote:If you didn't invest, why do you have such an issue with it? Wakefield were very clear about what you were paying for.
I don't have an issue with it, but it smacks of hypocrisy that people are saying Salford are failing because they've just done the same as us. If Salford fans want to invest (which it looks like they do), then great, if Trinity fans want to do the same - great too
But having the audacity to do one and then call out the other is just plain ridiculous
Joined: Oct 04 2008 Posts: 21008 Location: wakefield
Egg Banjo wrote:I don't have an issue with it, but it smacks of hypocrisy that people are saying Salford are failing because they've just done the same as us. If Salford fans want to invest (which it looks like they do), then great, if Trinity fans want to do the same - great too
But having the audacity to do one and then call out the other is just plain ridiculous
Ah I get what you mean. Fair point.
A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha
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