So what does a man ... who hasn't visited the club for a while and apparently (so you said) doesn't watch many games on TV suggest we do? We are eager to learn.

Some 'interesting' yet old hat debate but a bit of thread stretch rather than drift so here's my simpleton twopenneth

1. St Helens
2. Wigan
3. Leeds
4. Huddersfield
5. Warrington
6. Hull FC
7. Salford
8. Catalans
9. Castleford
10.Leigh
11. Wakefield
12.Hull KR

I think the jury will still be out (depending upon your KPI) uplift in performance but no silverware (I hope I'm wrong btw in the case of silverware)

My opinion is that it has in large part come down to our recruitment. This is not a dig at KF. I really wonder if we looked to take a leaf from Saints’ book when they recruited Jamie Lyona player who had lost interest in rugby, gone to play at a very low level and turned out to be one of the best signings ever. Our attempts have been less successful. (understatement of the year).
Our youth policy has had a rocky road and the successful clubs have had a solid core of homegrown players.
Plenty of other factors obviously.
The “excuses” is a red herring, the club have to say something. Given that at least half of the players and possibly the coach will be there the next season they have to be diplomatic in public. I doubt they are so diplomatic in private!
This is just my take on it, I have no inside info.

Yep. I blame our relatively poor recruitment & our lack of top notch local players.
I live miles away, now, but I'd guess we've not had the strongest schools/amateur club structure over the years.
re. Recruitment ... I'm hoping Matt Dufty might just be our Jamie Lyon.

What coaches/clubs say publicly is pretty worthless.

I am just contributing to a discussion on an internet forum dedicated to such. I've watched enough games in 43 years to satisfy myself that I am entitled to do that. I am on a self imposed hiatus at the moment as I'm not enjoying watching us nor accepting the poop served up.

I think we’ll make the six. And if that means only as high as sixth, I’ll be happy as long as we can make it at least as far as a semi-final. I’d rather that than finish higher up and limp out at the first hurdle like usual. If we do make the six I imagine we will do it playing more exciting rugby than we have for the past 9-10 years, something which will also make me a happy chappy.

So I’ll plump for:

1) Wigan
2) Saints
3) Cats
4) Leeds
5) Wire
6) Hull FC
7) Hudds (honeymoon year syndrome)
Cas
9) Salford
10) Hull KR
11) Wakey
12) The Leotards

During the 90s, Leeds were doing the same as us - trying to buy the title without success, and it was only when they made their youth level competitive with the top sides that success came their way. I'm fairly sure this played a major part and it may explain, to some degree, why we've been unsuccessful as we've only done the money bit and not the youth development. We did get close with Smith and really should have won at least one.

I agree with much of the above. With regards to a timeline, I think we should be looking at the performances and as many of the top coaches seem to say, focus on performance and the results will come.

Effort is number 1 - this was probably the biggest complaint and probably the main course of defeat as effort ties in with defence.

Passing moves and game play develop over a season and I'd expect us to develop enough to make the play offs and by that time, even if we were in the lower end (due to some early season dropped points), we should be giving anyone a challenge during that critical time.

So I do agree with probably everyone on here with regards to a definite improvement. I think though that we need to be realistic and patient in the first half of the season as professional teams in any sport don't just gel straight away. If that were the case, then sport would be simple: the club with the most money wins by just buying the best players and bingo.

Someone mentioned that we've bought 6 new players for the new season which is comparible to other sides. As far as I'm aware though, the other sides are adding to a core of players where we, given last season, have assembled a squad virtually from scratch - its a very different situation, hence the need for a bit of patience.

Any coach in this predicament, whether you like Powell or not, or whether you blame Powell or not, is starting at a disadvantage by the very nature of this rebuild ie. more work than probably anyone else to make our squad function as a team.

I think it'll be a really exciting season and I genuinely think things will improve dramatically, starting with effort. I can't see players like Mcgure moaning that he can't finish training early and I think the players know that Powell won't take any nonsense - we need that after Price.

Fingers crossed everybody and let's hope we see a seismic change.

Edit: (Easywire. I typed this during your post and we seem to be singing from the same hymm sheet with regards to playoffs).

This is a good point. We have virtually tried to change our go forward pack & is high risk.
When I look at how Huddersfield, for example, have added squad ... they seem to have added depth.
We seem to have more high cost high profile players. Our back up looks a bit thin.

Looking forward to it.

tell you whats worthwhile doing, going back and having another listen to that interview carney did with DP, a month or two on and not feeling as annoyed as i did when it came out, some of the responses feel a bit better than they did the first time i listened.

Hi eW, I fully respect your opinion on the the final standings next season because you are totally entitled to that . I would also like to point out that you guys are going into the unknown with hopeful performances straight away with all the changes you have made. It's also worth noting that you need to gel pretty quickly early doors, and this may or may not transpire especially after your poor run in last season . If this doesn't turn out the way you want it to (and i hope it does for you tbh) You will end up in a difficult situation. Yes Leigh have had to make changes, and also added quite a few quality players also, but the culture at Leigh (which as changed dramatically last season(for the good)) has carried on into this next season, and the winning mentality, and, the bonding, togetherness is still there. So I personally think your prediction is pretty much skewed on than that basis. Could I be wrong in all this? Of course I could.