Post subject: Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:39 pm
christopher
International Board Member
Joined: Nov 19 2002 Posts: 13686 Location: West Yorkshire
The Reaper wrote:Nah the first appeal panel agreed with the assessment that the arm wasn't taken into an unnatural range of motion which was their mistake really. You can't both agree with that and uphold the original ban because the ban was dependent on that fact. Their own verdict actually eradicated Knowles' guilt when it came to the charge levied at him, hence it was overturned. They can't just change the charge
The original Ban from the MRP didn't mention anything to with 'unnatural range of motion' or 'unnatural position'.
This is the original ban
"Dangerous Contact - Defender uses any part of their body forcefully to twist, bend or otherwise apply pressure to the limb or limbs of an opposing player in a way that involves an unacceptable risk of injury to that player."
So wether the Appeal panel mentioned unnatural position or whatever is irrelevant to the original Ban
Post subject: Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:52 pm
Seth
Club Owner
Joined: Mar 16 2004 Posts: 6756 Location: Meltham
I look forward to seeing whether this method of 'slowing the PTB down' is now more widely used knowing theres no cause to sanction. Id guess if you use it further down the field and not near your own try line itd only result in a penalty and not even a sin binning?
Post subject: Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:53 pm
The Reaper
International Star
Joined: Apr 17 2014 Posts: 432 Location: The swamps of Warrington
christopher wrote:The original Ban from the MRP didn't mention anything to with 'unnatural range of motion' or 'unnatural position'.
This is the original ban
"Dangerous Contact - Defender uses any part of their body forcefully to twist, bend or otherwise apply pressure to the limb or limbs of an opposing player in a way that involves an unacceptable risk of injury to that player."
So wether the Appeal panel mentioned unnatural position or whatever is irrelevant to the original Ban
The charge is the "unacceptable risk of injury" if the arm wasn't taken out of the natural range of motion then this can't exist
The only reason they look up to you is because they chose to kneel.
Post subject: Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:58 pm
christopher
International Board Member
Joined: Nov 19 2002 Posts: 13686 Location: West Yorkshire
The Reaper wrote:The charge is the "unacceptable risk of injury" if the arm wasn't taken out of the natural range of motion then this can't exist
Of course it can, twisting a players arm behind his back even in 'natural range of motion' can cause injury. The notes even state that if Atkin hadn't have changed his position it would have been worse.
The daft thing about this whole saga is that it has happened when there was a ban which was pretty much universally accepted was warranted.
Oh and Risk doesn't mean something will happen, that's the whole point.
Last edited by christopher on Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post subject: Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 2:58 pm
Daftie
Club Captain
Joined: Jan 21 2017 Posts: 14
LeedsLurch wrote:I wouldn't worry about it in the slightest. Wear your colours with pride, you may get some banter but you're inviting that by wearing your colours. Let me put it this way, I would wear my Leeds shirt there every day without a worry. Leeds United shirt, different story
Cheers Lurch, that’s exactly what I thought. Cheers for confirming.
Post subject: Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:06 pm
The Reaper
International Star
Joined: Apr 17 2014 Posts: 432 Location: The swamps of Warrington
Seth wrote:The word is risk not actual. Do we really want this to become common place in the game?
Yes, but the risk isn't "unacceptable" if he's not pulling the arm out of normal range of movement. There is risk in every single tackle on the rugby pitch, that's just the sport. The "unacceptable" would only apply if he is twisting out of the normal range of motion, because clearly the risk of causing injury there is high. He's almost never going to injure somebody by pulling their arm within the natural range of motion
The only reason they look up to you is because they chose to kneel.
Post subject: Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:12 pm
christopher
International Board Member
Joined: Nov 19 2002 Posts: 13686 Location: West Yorkshire
The Reaper wrote:Yes, but the risk isn't "unacceptable" if he's not pulling the arm out of normal range of movement. There is risk in every single tackle on the rugby pitch, that's just the sport. The "unacceptable" would only apply if he is twisting out of the normal range of motion, because clearly the risk of causing injury there is high. He's almost never going to injure somebody by pulling their arm within the natural range of motion
But again the appeal judiciary stated that it was only because catkin reacted and changed his position that the arm didn't go out of 'normal range'.
You put your arm where Atkins was and then think that there is someone twisting it - normal range of motion or not it could injure you.
It was a clear bit of fowl play that nobody seem to question when given a ban. well apart from Saints that is. The way it has subsequently been handled by the RFL is an absolute farce. For example there's no actual ruling, what happened did it get downgraded to a grade A, did the whole thing get thrown out because the appeal was flawed, I don't know why Saints fans are getting al uppity people are having a go at the RFL not Saints.
Post subject: Re: SL GF | St Helens (Old Trafford)
Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:14 pm
The Reaper
International Star
Joined: Apr 17 2014 Posts: 432 Location: The swamps of Warrington
christopher wrote:But again the appeal judiciary stated that it was only because catkin reacted and changed his position that the arm didn't go out of 'normal range'.
You put your arm where Atkins was and then think that there is someone twisting it - normal range of motion or not it could injure you.
It was a clear bit of fowl play that nobody seem to question when given a ban. well apart from Saints that is. The way it has subsequently been handled by the RFL is an absolute farce. For example there's no actual ruling, what happened did it get downgraded to a grade A, did the whole thing get thrown out because the appeal was flawed, I don't know why Saints fans are getting al uppity people are having a go at the RFL not Saints.
The verdict was he wasn't guilty of the charge he was faced with, which is why the entire ban got overturned
The only reason they look up to you is because they chose to kneel.
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