Joined: Mar 04 2002 Posts: 4461 Location: Dublin's fair city
Neruda wrote:if there was no bias the bans would be equally distributed, surely? werent we on 30% more bans than the next team when some journo did an analysis?
Probably, but you have to take account that our red /yellow card were much higher than other teams as well. We had a discipline problem that led to bans.
Hail Stewie Griffin wrote: All dumbies those Irish folk
finglas wrote:Probably, but you have to take account that our red /yellow card were much higher than other teams as well. We had a discipline problem that led to bans.
tell yourself what you want, but Martin didnt get a yellow and the match officials/MRP are independant of each other, so not sure how thats relevant?
edit: Catalans are level on us for red cards and only 3 behind in yellow (would be as bad as our record, if not worse, had they mircaulously been let off in our game) yet nowhere near us in bans - so our reputation counts against us, but theirs doesnt against them? seems like bias to me
Neruda wrote:tell yourself what you want, but Martin didnt get a yellow and the match officials/MRP are independant of each other, so not sure how thats relevant?
edit: Catalans are level on us for red cards and only 3 behind in yellow (would be as bad as our record, if not worse, had they mircaulously been let off in our game) yet nowhere near us in bans - so our reputation counts against us, but theirs doesnt against them? seems like bias to me
I'm not satisfied with the MRP or the disciplinary process but there's a lot of flawed logic here in trying to look at this pseudo-statistically, starting with it being such a small sample size that you can't and shouldn't draw dramatic conclusions (even if we were dealing with a population of similar incidents). Which we're not, each one is its own case so you simply can't draw the conclusions you're making.
"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs."
Joined: May 28 2002 Posts: 7395 Location: Isca Dumnoniorum
Whatever we might think about this one-off incident, the RFL clearly have a huge problem with this year's disciplinary process. If they want to keep it, at the least they need to find a way to explain it to fans and the sport's media in a way we can understand, as well as taking greater steps to show fans that the process is genuinely independent (thinking about the histories and allegiances of ex-players on the panel), consistent, equitable and transparent - all things that look massively questionable at present.
I think we can all agree with many of the bans Leeds players have received this season, including those for Bentley and Tetevano, and even Newman's tantrum. It's the small 1-2 game bans that few people comment on during the game (including the match officials, apparently) that need looking at. Perhaps these smaller infringements can be dealt with in a different way?
On bias, while it seems that Leeds are disproportionately targeted in the heat of the moment, I doubt there is any statistically significant bias , even if we have had more bans than most other teams (?).
That said, one thing I'm not sure about is whether Catalans get special preferential treatment when playing at home - Brian Mac made this point a long time ago, and the treatment of Catalans players by match officials in recent years (on and off the field) has tended to confirm this sense (IMO). Remember the play-off game when McIlorum blatantly targeted Leeds players illegally, with no on-field action helping Catalans win the game? McIllorum went on to receive a lengthy ban, allowing Catalans to progress and ultimately benefiting their next round opponents (Saints).
Joined: Sep 26 2002 Posts: 11377 Location: Much too far South
Exeter Rhino wrote:That said, one thing I'm not sure about is whether Catalans get special preferential treatment when playing at home - Brian Mac made this point a long time ago, and the treatment of Catalans players by match officials in recent years (on and off the field) has tended to confirm this sense (IMO). Remember the play-off game when McIlorum blatantly targeted Leeds players illegally, with no on-field action helping Catalans win the game? McIllorum went on to receive a lengthy ban, allowing Catalans to progress and ultimately benefiting their next round opponents (Saints).
It happened to Saints this year - we lost by two points and two Catalans players picked up bans totalling EIGHT MATCHES afterwards for two bad incidents. Napa only got a yellow then got a five match ban (!) and Mcilorum was just a penalty then three matches.
Both were blatant but the Napa decision in particular was ridiculous.
The whole process is shrouded in mystery which eventually leads to fans drawing their own flawed conclusions. I wonder whether they might do better to focus on offenses that incurred yellow or red cards during the course of games, rather than scouring hours of video footage to "find" foul play. You could also give individual clubs the right to site players who they believe committed offences which they endangered their players. Might lead to an initial bun fight, but it would make both clubs and players accountable to themselves and each other, rather than the recipients of random justice.
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