Maybe the ageing RL fan base is the reason for it effecting RL matches. The sport needs younger fans.

101%!
Rugby League as a sport needs to spend 10 times on Marketing itself in 2022 to just "tread water"....people have had 2 years to find something else to do and we need to get the Fans back....

I see "event" marketing a being Key in the next few years....

Blimey Izmir? You said on TRL "As I run and coach an amateur club and small League I fully understand the importance of the local game". Are you also a self declared marketing expert as well?? Is there no end to your talents??

Quote: orangeman wrote:101%! Rugby League as a sport needs to spend 10 times on Marketing itself in 2022 to just "tread water"....people have had 2 years to find something else to do and we need to get the Fans back.... I see "event" marketing a being Key in the next few years.... So what are the key areas that will guarantee a return on investment ? Many other sports have had 'events' which attract a good one off number, but doesn't turn into sustainable growth (e.g. Saracens RU games at Wembley). What should Wigan or Saints be doing to encourage growth outside their dormitory areas - if these two can't get 15k crowds week in week out then there's little hope for the rest. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... gby-league

Quote: orangeman wrote:101%! Rugby League as a sport needs to spend 10 times on Marketing itself in 2022 to just "tread water"....people have had 2 years to find something else to do and we need to get the Fans back.... I see "event" marketing a being Key in the next few years.... So what are the key areas that will guarantee a return on investment ? Many other sports have had 'events' which attract a good one off number, but doesn't turn into sustainable growth (e.g. Saracens RU games at Wembley). What should Wigan or Saints be doing to encourage growth outside their dormitory areas - if these two can't get 15k crowds week in week out then there's little hope for the rest. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... gby-league

Covid fear must only be in RL fans then. Football stadiums are sold out, boxing events sold out. Darts events sold out. Cricket events sold out. Even the NFL games in London are sold out.

Using Covid as an excuse is laughable.

I used to be a self declared marketing expert.....then I went to university....twice....and am now a "doctor" in the field. If you stop searching for imaginary friends, you'll see that 90% of my posts are in the broncos boards and are bemoaning the lack of anything in that area.....you may like to check out the attendance records if the central pulse netball team in NZ.....they seem to have gone from 500 to 2,500.....…...I've never run a small RL club, but I do also sponsor 2 RL clubs youth teams....in Petone and in Kapiti.
Stop being a self appointed moderator parky.....you look foolish.

And all them sports have a bigger younger demographic going to live events. I am not saying that's the sole reason for poor live gates in Super League but it cannot be ignored. The sport desperately needs to attract younger fans.

Covid hesitancy is an issue, and not just for Rugby League. Plenty of the events that are selling out have an audience that is far bigger than their stadium capacities. They are selling out, but they are doing so slower than normal. I've been to every Premier League game at Anfield this season, and they've obviously all been sold out, but tickets have been far easier to come by than they usually are. There was a handful still available for Man City at home - the biggest fixture of recent seasons - on the club website on the morning of the game last Sunday. In normal circumstances that is unheard of. I follow the PDC on Twitter and they were promoting "tickets for tonight still available" throughout the World Grand Prix over the last week. They would normally be sold weeks ago. I've been told by a union fan that the RFU have put tickets for England V Australia and South Africa on general sale, when they could normally fill Twickenham twice over for those games selling to members only. I'm sure the NFL in London will be sold out today, but again, those games always sell out and it may well have been easier than normal to get tickets. I realise the NFL signed a deal with Spurs long before Covid, but it is still worth pointing out that the capacity is over 20,000 less than Wembley where the games have always been before.

Those things all still sell out eventually because for every regular atendee who chooses not to, there's someone else waiting in the wings to pick up the remaining tickets. Rugby League obviously doesn't have that so the attendances drop. Given the situation and the teams playing - one who would obviously bring few fans, and another whose fans have seen it won plenty of times before - I actually thought 45,000 was decent. I expected less than 40,000. If it had been Wires V Hull for example, with decent sized fan bases who have yet to see a Grand Final win, you could add 20,000 to that as an absolute minimum and there's nothing to worry about.

shinymcshine wrote:So what are the key areas that will guarantee a return on investment ? Many other sports have had 'events' which attract a good one off number, but doesn't turn into sustainable growth (e.g. Saracens RU games at Wembley). What should Wigan or Saints be doing to encourage growth outside their dormitory areas - if these two can't get 15k crowds week in week out then there's little hope for the rest. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... gby-league You're bang right...crowds across the top teams are worrying. People point to catalan as the reason the crowd was down last night, but there were huge swathes of empty seats in the saints end...who took no more than 15-20k absolute max for a final ....that's awful. The biggest challenge RL has is something I read a few weeks ago. Only 4% of the population are within an area with a SL side! Is it any wonder we struggle to attract broadcasting and commercial sponsorship with those figures? No wonder we're seen as a marginalised minority sport. SL needs another breakaway. Another revolution IMO to make the game exciting / appeal to new fans in wider areas and bring in the commercial revenues it desperately needs. The game needs city and regional clubs at the top level if its to survive. Personally, i would bring some teams up from big population areas and also rebrand some of our clubs to represent wider areas. ie/ you could quickly get to a SL of the following from existing clubs which would be much more commercially viable, exciting and bring in much wider interest; Leeds Rhinos Catalan Dragons Toulouse Olympic London Broncos Newcastle Thunder (Renamed Tyne Thunder to appeal to the whole area) Liverpool Saints (Still playing in St Helens..still same fanbase, but a subtle rename and 2-3 big games in liverpool) Manchester Fords (Salford, same premise as St Helens) Then expand existing big clubs like Hull, Wigan and Warrington to represent wider areas; Wigan Lancashire or Lancashire Warriors Cheshire Wire Hull East Yorkshire etc. ....Again still in existing League towns but appealing to wider areas Yes the traditionalists would moan for a bit, but they'd learn to sap it up. If they don't we'd maybe lose 20% of fans max, for huge opportunities to bring in new fans and much improved commercial revenues. Put that SL to sky/ BT or any other broadcaster and they'd be prepared to pay twice as much for it, as would any other sponsor. Get the money into the game and get the product back to the level it was 20 years ago and we'll start creating events which bring the fans back and new fans into the game.

shinymcshine wrote:So what are the key areas that will guarantee a return on investment ? Many other sports have had 'events' which attract a good one off number, but doesn't turn into sustainable growth (e.g. Saracens RU games at Wembley). What should Wigan or Saints be doing to encourage growth outside their dormitory areas - if these two can't get 15k crowds week in week out then there's little hope for the rest. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... gby-league You're bang right...crowds across the top teams are worrying. People point to catalan as the reason the crowd was down last night, but there were huge swathes of empty seats in the saints end...who took no more than 15-20k absolute max for a final ....that's awful. The biggest challenge RL has is something I read a few weeks ago. Only 4% of the population are within an area with a SL side! Is it any wonder we struggle to attract broadcasting and commercial sponsorship with those figures? No wonder we're seen as a marginalised minority sport. SL needs another breakaway. Another revolution IMO to make the game exciting / appeal to new fans in wider areas and bring in the commercial revenues it desperately needs. The game needs city and regional clubs at the top level if its to survive. Personally, i would bring some teams up from big population areas and also rebrand some of our clubs to represent wider areas. ie/ you could quickly get to a SL of the following from existing clubs which would be much more commercially viable, exciting and bring in much wider interest; Leeds Rhinos Catalan Dragons Toulouse Olympic London Broncos Newcastle Thunder (Renamed Tyne Thunder to appeal to the whole area) Liverpool Saints (Still playing in St Helens..still same fanbase, but a subtle rename and 2-3 big games in liverpool) Manchester Fords (Salford, same premise as St Helens) Then expand existing big clubs like Hull, Wigan and Warrington to represent wider areas; Wigan Lancashire or Lancashire Warriors Cheshire Wire Hull East Yorkshire etc. ....Again still in existing League towns but appealing to wider areas Yes the traditionalists would moan for a bit, but they'd learn to sap it up. If they don't we'd maybe lose 20% of fans max, for huge opportunities to bring in new fans and much improved commercial revenues. Put that SL to sky/ BT or any other broadcaster and they'd be prepared to pay twice as much for it, as would any other sponsor. Get the money into the game and get the product back to the level it was 20 years ago and we'll start creating events which bring the fans back and new fans into the game.

That wouldn't work at all, and would be ridiculous. Before you say it works in other sports, yes, it has done in cricket for example where the whole point was to attract new fans to an already very well known and popular sport but which doesn't really have the passionate fan bases Rugby League clubs have. If cricketing traditionalists ignored The 100 it made no difference as it wasn't designed for them anyway.

Look at the opposition in Hull to the attempted rebrand of Hull City to Hull Tigers (with Tigers already being their nickname anyway), and the opposition in Cardiff to the switch from blue to red of Cardiff City's kit despite it being the colour of the country they are the capital of. There's a few London football clubs who definitely wish their founders had included "London" in their name over 100 years ago because that would be a selling point for them globally now. West Ham have tried to shoehorn London into their branding at every opportunity over the last ten years, and Chelsea are showing signs of doing the same now. They can't just rename the clubs though, no matter how much the owners probably wish they could, because the fans wouldn't have it. Swinton fans wouldn't either.

Tradition matters. Including them in the name of clubs they already have no interest in won't make people in Liverpool and Manchester start supporting Saints or Salford. Cheapening the existing identity will 100% cost you existing fans though.