Joined: Mar 09 2002 Posts: 5130 Location: Twickenham
Smithers99 wrote:New fans don’t need Superleague quality. We need to be entertained and have a level of competitiveness.
This is key. If the move to PL was being combined with improvements to the squad and a return to the days when the club made a concerted effort to build the match day experience then we might stand a small chance of making a success of it.
jbuzza wrote:This is key. If the move to PL was being combined with improvements to the squad and a return to the days when the club made a concerted effort to build the match day experience then we might stand a small chance of making a success of it.
In an ideal world, a new squad, a new venue, a new pre and post match offering, a new structured plan to attract new fans, families and lapsed fans....all overseen by either new and aptly qualified people or at least somebody with a passion for the game of rugby league.....
...alas, we have hockey man and shirt-sale boy, who between them have managed to shed 90% of the few fans we had at the end of 2019.
Smithers99 wrote:Re point 5 you asked! Sticking to Youtube take a look at another video from a lady called Windie at her second ever AFC Wimbledon match.
Forward to 3:30. Note Windie is sitting beyond the goal line. Then pause at 3:45. Between the two “tunnels” are 1,136 away seats. Are there really only 300 Portsmouth fans there? There are a further 329 Away seats to the left of the “tunnel” that which also had Portsmouth occupation. I think the figure of 835 from Portsmouth themselves is far closer (there will be no shows plus those at the bar/toilets)
Next pause at 3:50. Not many empty seats in the only area of the ground made available to AFC Wimbledon supporters (3,264 lower tier seats I believe). Remember where Windie is seated at that point (she does seem talented at moving around the ground mind!) so most seats are in her video
The tier above has Hospitality. It was limited availability for this match, but was sold out. The empty seats in the distance are for Away fans.
Season Tickets were not valid for this match. A lot of regulars boycott the competition on principle. I’m not aware of any advertising for the match. The two stands weren’t closed due to slow sales. The closure existed at the point the tickets went on sale.
Windie was lucky to get a ticket, rarely is that approach likely to work again. There were empty seats where she sat, but her video clearly shows a crowd of around 4K in my opinion. To close for me to say 4K+ with any certainty.
A good game to illustrate the demand in Wimbledon really is there; that was not only a big crowd for Wimbledon in the Papa John’s Trophy group stage, but would also be for most clubs.
I’m not on this forum to big-up AFC Wimbledon. The opening post in this thread attempts to prove the lack of local interest in the football and is used as proof why there is little hope of support for the Broncos. Maybe there won’t be enough support, but it’s misleading to suggest it’s because there isn’t even enough interest for the football.
Rather I’m interested and excited at the prospect of watching the London Broncos. I can see there is a lot of upset over the direction of the club in recent years. If the Broncos move to Plough Lane (and I suspect it’s 50/50 they stay at Ealing) then local support will be essential. The suggestion that little more than 200 fans will continue to follow the Broncos highlights that. AFC Wimbledon fans is just an easy entry into that local support, they will need to capture other local fans also..
New fans don’t need Superleague quality. We need to be entertained and have a level of competitiveness. Whilst I suspect the potential league structure re-orgs / reduced financial distribution is going to create some mismatches, it doesn’t suggest the Broncos will be left adrift from their entire division.
The 200K fixed rent a year isn’t going to work (unless somebody at the Broncos wants to contribute it as a loss leader separate from the team’s budget). So I doubt the Broncos will play at Plough Lane whilst paying that. Either Ealing or closure; probably dependent on what contractual obligations they have with AFC Wimbledon and whether they can be renegotiated. My guess is AFC Wimbledon will compromise, but only so far as at a certain level, then they themselves will decide to withdraw the ground sharing offer.
The new fans might not want super league quality (which is debatable) but the club does, if you go back to the days we were in super league and had a good team the gates were 5000 to 6000 when we played St Helens, Leeds, Wigan and Bradford until they went bust. The crowds were good with travling away supporters who used to make a weekend of the away game. You will never acheive anywhere near those gates playing in the champioship. As my good old mate Orangeman will tell you need a gate of 5000 to break even.
Smithers99 wrote:Re point 5 you asked! Sticking to Youtube take a look at another video from a lady called Windie at her second ever AFC Wimbledon match.
Forward to 3:30. Note Windie is sitting beyond the goal line. Then pause at 3:45. Between the two “tunnels” are 1,136 away seats. Are there really only 300 Portsmouth fans there? There are a further 329 Away seats to the left of the “tunnel” that which also had Portsmouth occupation. I think the figure of 835 from Portsmouth themselves is far closer (there will be no shows plus those at the bar/toilets)
Next pause at 3:50. Not many empty seats in the only area of the ground made available to AFC Wimbledon supporters (3,264 lower tier seats I believe). Remember where Windie is seated at that point (she does seem talented at moving around the ground mind!) so most seats are in her video
The tier above has Hospitality. It was limited availability for this match, but was sold out. The empty seats in the distance are for Away fans.
Season Tickets were not valid for this match. A lot of regulars boycott the competition on principle. I’m not aware of any advertising for the match. The two stands weren’t closed due to slow sales. The closure existed at the point the tickets went on sale.
Windie was lucky to get a ticket, rarely is that approach likely to work again. There were empty seats where she sat, but her video clearly shows a crowd of around 4K in my opinion. To close for me to say 4K+ with any certainty.
A good game to illustrate the demand in Wimbledon really is there; that was not only a big crowd for Wimbledon in the Papa John’s Trophy group stage, but would also be for most clubs.
I’m not on this forum to big-up AFC Wimbledon. The opening post in this thread attempts to prove the lack of local interest in the football and is used as proof why there is little hope of support for the Broncos. Maybe there won’t be enough support, but it’s misleading to suggest it’s because there isn’t even enough interest for the football.
Rather I’m interested and excited at the prospect of watching the London Broncos. I can see there is a lot of upset over the direction of the club in recent years. If the Broncos move to Plough Lane (and I suspect it’s 50/50 they stay at Ealing) then local support will be essential. The suggestion that little more than 200 fans will continue to follow the Broncos highlights that. AFC Wimbledon fans is just an easy entry into that local support, they will need to capture other local fans also..
New fans don’t need Superleague quality. We need to be entertained and have a level of competitiveness. Whilst I suspect the potential league structure re-orgs / reduced financial distribution is going to create some mismatches, it doesn’t suggest the Broncos will be left adrift from their entire division.
The 200K fixed rent a year isn’t going to work (unless somebody at the Broncos wants to contribute it as a loss leader separate from the team’s budget). So I doubt the Broncos will play at Plough Lane whilst paying that. Either Ealing or closure; probably dependent on what contractual obligations they have with AFC Wimbledon and whether they can be renegotiated. My guess is AFC Wimbledon will compromise, but only so far as at a certain level, then they themselves will decide to withdraw the ground sharing offer.
The new fans might not want super league quality (which is debatable) but the club does, if you go back to the days we were in super league and had a good team the gates were 5000 to 6000 when we played St Helens, Leeds, Wigan and Bradford until they went bust. The crowds were good with travling away supporters who used to make a weekend of the away game. You will never acheive anywhere near those gates playing in the champioship. As my good old mate Orangeman will tell you need a gate of 5000 to break even.
@Smithers99, @MashTun Just want to make something clear, nobody on the forum has any problem with Wimbledon, your a very well run club, a superb stadium and its largely thanks to the Dons marketing that we sold the 2K tickets we did, and any Wimbledon fans who attend are very welcome, and we really hope you continue to come.
But we have been here before (multiple times), and for this to work requires the Broncos Leadership and Management to also step up to the plate, and on this we have zero expectation that they will be able to get anywhere close to delivering (all you have to do is look at the first game, Wimbledon helped drive the attendance over 2K, but did the Broncos actually provide anything towards the match day experience nope, no program, no branding, no kids zone, no entertainment outside of the match, and the squad who was picked had lost the game after 10 mins hence no product on the pitch either.
Will they turn this around and have some kids entertainment, some half time activities, some form of branding, some form of profiles of the London club and players, mascots back (Buck and Dusty) for Whitehaven. I'm not holding my breath
Joined: Mar 09 2002 Posts: 5130 Location: Twickenham
crashmon wrote:Will they turn this around and have some kids entertainment, some half time activities, some form of branding, some form of profiles of the London club and players, mascots back (Buck and Dusty) for Whitehaven. I'm not holding my breath
Not at all. I've felt very welcomed by everybody on this forum. I can also feel the scars that have built up over the years. Even if the running of the club was perfect, I can't imagine the inconvenience of moving around London multiple times as a supporter.
I'm also conscious that me referring to AFC Wimbledon too often is going to indirectly grate on people. There is much wrong with that football club, so it's certainly not all rosier over there.
It is hard to see where the Broncos go from here if it's not a success in Wimbledon simply because it does feel an element of rock bottom by having to go part-time and likely finishing lower than at anytime in their history.
It's a tricky sport when teams are unevenly matched. Basketball is similar in that it can be so one sided. A sport such as football where their can be limited scores can keep the result on edge even with one team dominating. It's generally not too hard to follow a team near the bottom of a league (ten in eleven seasons for AFC Wimbledon probably!). It's the matches against the likes of Featherstone and Leigh which are going to be a tough watch, especially for somebody at their first match.
As someone from North London the move to South West London was neither convenient or welcome for me personally but, by fault or design, a relaunch was needed and a move to Wimbledon was felt a strong choice. I can see the force of that argument. The issue for me, and I think quite a few others, has mainly been the total disconnect between investing heavily in a relaunch (rent to the Dons and 2 training ground providers, advertising) whilst appearing to reduce investment in the playing and non playing staff by an unprecedented level. Not only do we risk undoing all the good work (and wasting good will with Dons supporters and upfront advertising campaigns) by having a non competitive side but we don’t seem to even have the back room staff to deliver all the little day to day things like marketing, match day experience, fan engagement, merchandise even things as micro as having mascots and keeping the website up to date. A side that is liable to be comfortably beaten by many of its competitors is not likely to maximise its potential. It’s easy to criticise and it’s easy to spend other people’s money but the big spend on the ground had to, in some way, be balanced by some kind of spend on playing and back room operation. The consensus on this forum appeared to be that the 1st 3 home games were a good guide to where we are: 3 reasonable sides but ones we would historically beat. If we lose all 3 and the games are over at half time as per Widnes: something would need to be done or this could get messy. The answer isn’t to keep recruiting from Skolars, who perennially come one from last in the league below and frankly adverts can draw people in but they stay because they enjoy the experience and much of that is about what is dished up on field. At a time where we all want to be optimistic there is a real threat we might end up in a relegation dog fight and an unintended consequence of our recruitment policy may well be that only the chaos at WWR and the obvious challenges of Cornwall working out will stop Skolars from losing every week and finishing bottom of the pile.
DH needs to get rid of the monkey and possibly the lobster and apologise to all the fans which have been told not to come back because these two did not want listen to very helpful constructive advice of years long fans. Most of the fans they have barred are longstanding fans with anything from 17 to 27 years standing. Also apologise to fans that have been removed from the forum etc. Until these two go and new knowledgeable people are appointed the club will never prosper
itsmeagain wrote:DH needs to get rid of the monkey and possibly the lobster and apologise to all the fans which have been told not to come back because these two did not want listen to very helpful constructive advice of years long fans. Most of the fans they have barred are longstanding fans with anything from 17 to 27 years standing. Also apologise to fans that have been removed from the forum etc. Until these two go and new knowledgeable people are appointed the club will never prosper
David Hughes doesn't take advice from anyone. It's his club and in his eyes he and his appointed staff can do no wrong......when we were relegated it was 100% down to his reaction to a hammering by Wigan in the cup, when we ruined the relationship with quins it was 100% down to his employing inept CEOs, when we opted to look away from Ealing it was again down to a breakdown in he relationship with the landlords..... Brentford, Harlequins and even Ealing Trailfinders all seem to be doing fine without us
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