Until Williams has those big moments in a semi final or a final I can’t put him in the bracket of outstanding. He’s a very good weekly round player but I honestly can’t remember a moment of note in a big knockout game. He put Faz in to a gap for the Gildart try in 2016 but that’s probably his highlight. The best players are big game players IMO. I look at somebody like Danny McGuire and as an all round player I think Williams has more about him but McGuire came alive in the biggest games and had those magic moments. Tommy Leuluai has had his moments, Sam Tomkins as well, Rob Burrow, Sean Long and so on but there’s been nothing of note for Williams yet. Maybe it will come in the future but he’s done extremely well to become the highest paid player in superleague, let’s put it that way.

It was a silly remark, but sadly indicative of the hate that some of our fans have for our own players. This week we've also had calls to replace Byrne and Havard with Kyle Amor. Kyle f*in Amor...

Granted it's been a crazy season and people are angry, but it's all getting a bit ridiculous.

Take it you’re not for that one then?

I absolutely agree. Some of the calls are laughable, we all want change and we all want better but common sense and level headedness would be a great thing right now. If some of these calls actually came to fruition we’d be a bottom club in no time.

Nothing against Amor, but he's 34 and hardly setting the world alight.

It infuriates me when people write Byrne off. Imo he's got a good future in front of him and, ironically, if he left he'd probably have the same kind of career as Amor i.e left Leeds for a smaller club and proved his worth before making 200 appearances for Saints. See Mulhern as another example and a player that people (myself included) wanted us to sign.

If we let Byrne go, he'd go down that same route and probably end up at a rival in a few years. The same guys would then be saying why did we let him leave and how he's exactly what we need Vs the latest young forward that's getting hung out to dry.

Some people said similar things about Ryan Sutton then they had to back track a bit when he made it in the NRL.

Then suddenly it must have been Canberra that made him improve over night.

Yes he has become a better player in the NRL but he was a damn fine prop forward for Wigan too.

We should absolutely hang on to Byrne and hope that the two new props are able to help him out a bit.

Kick for Davies to score in 2018 with the score at 4-4.

I'd throw Dudson and Mossop in there too. Neither are outstanding and obviously Mossop left under difficult circumstances, but both matured into good SL props.

It's a cliche, but with props it really does take time. Judging a 21 year old and saying get shut is scandalous imo. Byrne isn't even close to being one of the best props in the league, but he's holding his own + he's added some size on this year. Stuff like that are positive indicators imo and point towards a good future. Like you said tho, he just needs some help.

Exactly, Byrne has just turned 22 years of age, Havard is 20, Smithies is 20, Pearce-Paul is 20, Partington has just turned 23. It's a young pack that needs time to develop, that's why we need(ed) a couple of hold heads to help them out. I do think we missed a trick in not signing Chris Hill for a year or two.

There's been moments, of that there's no doubt. He's also played a well in successful Wigan sides & made a decent account of himself in the NRL too. He's a good player.

I'm arguing two points tho:

1 - he's not outstanding & 2 - he's not worth the tag of being the highest paid player in the league. I'd liken him to a slightly better version of Gildart i.e he's played a role in successful sides and like Gildart you can point to occasions bits of brilliance. I'm not paying overs for either of them tho.

I couldn’t recall if he did anything in the CC final of 2017 so I had a look at the try’s. He passed the ball on to Gildart who scored a good try, so it was an assist of sorts. That makes it 2 assists and 0 try’s in 5 finals (4 Grand Finals and 1 challenge cup). It sort of proves the point of how quiet he’s been in finals for a player of that level.

I’m a big fan of him in the main and have had so many debates with friends about him over the years and I’ve been on the side of backing him. The only thing I could never say about him was that he’d played at his best in finals (or semi finals). Until he does that he’s a good player but not a great one IMO.