Post subject: Re: Education, education, education and war
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:36 am
The Ghost of '99
Player Coach
Joined: Feb 26 2006 Posts: 3092
Sal Paradise wrote:Do we not trade with the likes of China on WTO terms? Who has said anything about zero tariffs?
Yes we do. So we just apply the same tariffs as we do on Chinese imports to European ones. Simple! Until you realise what that actually means!
Sal Paradise wrote:Nobody is saying punish the EU - surely the view was trade talks would undertaken in the spirit of finding a workable solution - can you genuinely say the EU has tried to be constructive? .
Yes, anyone who isn't fed by a drip of right wing propaganda knows they have. There are a bunch on off the shelf solutions, Norway, Switzerland, even Canada etc, so we've seen what sort of things we can achieve given what the EU countries will accept. They've actually offered movement in quite a few areas that would be better than these.
But the British continue to demand things which simply can't be offered. That's not a failing to be constructive, it's just fact as to what the community's red lines are and what will be vetoed by any particular country. And the interests of the Republic of Ireland are given an outsize importance given how things will impact them.
But yes, obviously they hold the whip hand in these negotiations so any deal we get isn't exactly going to be particularly favourable given the relative power dynamics. Like us they are looking after their own interests first. But this has been made clear all along and shouldn't come as some surprise to you.
"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs."
Post subject: Re: Education, education, education and war
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:36 pm
Sal Paradise
International Board Member
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
The Ghost of '99 wrote:I mean the fact you actually believe this story shows how much false news you have been consuming. Dear oh dear.
Let's see who is right shall we?
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Post subject: Re: Education, education, education and war
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:44 pm
Sal Paradise
International Board Member
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
The Ghost of '99 wrote:Yes we do. So we just apply the same tariffs as we do on Chinese imports to European ones. Simple! Until you realise what that actually means!
Yes, anyone who isn't fed by a drip of right wing propaganda knows they have. There are a bunch on off the shelf solutions, Norway, Switzerland, even Canada etc, so we've seen what sort of things we can achieve given what the EU countries will accept. They've actually offered movement in quite a few areas that would be better than these.
But the British continue to demand things which simply can't be offered. That's not a failing to be constructive, it's just fact as to what the community's red lines are and what will be vetoed by any particular country. And the interests of the Republic of Ireland are given an outsize importance given how things will impact them.
But yes, obviously they hold the whip hand in these negotiations so any deal we get isn't exactly going to be particularly favourable given the relative power dynamics. Like us they are looking after their own interests first. But this has been made clear all along and shouldn't come as some surprise to you.
On radio 4 they had the German guy who acts as a go between and he stated that none of these deals Norway, Canada etc. can be adapted for the UK due to our proximity to the EU and our 40 years of involvement - so it would have to be a bespoke arrangement. So these off the shelf deals never existed in reality.
As you said both parties are trying to look out for themselves and it should come as no surprise to you that we haven't simply rolled over and let the EU tell us how its going to be. The EU cannot expect us to be a Norway - worse as they have quotas in their waters which the EU claim to be far too complicated to administer in our waters. They expect us to adhere to the ECJ, they want a say in state aid - when Germany just does what it wants when it comes to bailing out failing industries e.g. Lufthansa - so it isn't just the UK that is asking for things that simply can't be offered?
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Post subject: Re: Education, education, education and war
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 1:47 pm
The Ghost of '99
Player Coach
Joined: Feb 26 2006 Posts: 3092
Just on state aid, it's a bit tiresome but Tories really do need to learn the difference between their governments ideologically refusing to help uk industries with it being disallowed under EU state aid rules. Another vast bundle of misinformation lies behind some of the stuff they come out with in this area when it's in reality been their own government stiffing them all along.
"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs."
Post subject: Re: Education, education, education and war
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:39 pm
Sal Paradise
International Board Member
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
The Ghost of '99 wrote:Just on state aid, it's a bit tiresome but Tories really do need to learn the difference between their governments ideologically refusing to help uk industries with it being disallowed under EU state aid rules. Another vast bundle of misinformation lies behind some of the stuff they come out with in this area when it's in reality been their own government stiffing them all along.
So are you saying the Lufthansa bail out was within EU state aid rules?
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Post subject: Re: Education, education, education and war
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:26 pm
Mild Rover
Moderator
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12613 Location: Leicestershire.
Sal Paradise wrote:Let's see who is right shall we?
The thing is, even if they decided a new voice might help, they’d still need to fundamentally change their position. Barnier isn’t just making it up - he’s got clear guidance on his remit.
The problem is that the U.K. wants things that undermine the principles that hold the EU together. Their concerns about that are just as pressing as brexiteer concerns about complete, unequivocal, unshared sovereignty for the U.K.
So there’s no landing zone for a meaningful deal, and we need to prepare for the consequences of that. And the opportunities, as well - which will be quicker and easier, at least.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Quite. There isn't some great conspiracy out there - the UK's right wing governments don't believe in central support of business and more than once have tried to conflate that ideological position with "EU rules" when it has been nothing of the sort. They've pulled the same lying trick on a massive number of things, from the trivial (straight bananas) on up.
Quite. There isn't some great conspiracy out there - the UK's right wing governments don't believe in central support of business and more than once have tried to conflate that ideological position with "EU rules" when it has been nothing of the sort. They've pulled the same lying trick on a massive number of things, from the trivial (straight bananas) on up.
"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs."
Post subject: Re: Education, education, education and war
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:58 am
Sal Paradise
International Board Member
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
Mild Rover wrote:The thing is, even if they decided a new voice might help, they’d still need to fundamentally change their position. Barnier isn’t just making it up - he’s got clear guidance on his remit.
The problem is that the U.K. wants things that undermine the principles that hold the EU together. Their concerns about that are just as pressing as brexiteer concerns about complete, unequivocal, unshared sovereignty for the U.K.
So there’s no landing zone for a meaningful deal, and we need to prepare for the consequences of that. And the opportunities, as well - which will be quicker and easier, at least.
Absolutely agree with the above - we were always heading for no deal - there is no other logical outcome - including some restrictions in Eire otherwise its Hotel California.
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
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