Joined: Jun 29 2011 Posts: 1522 Location: PIE IN THE SKY DISH
wotsupcas wrote:But he didn't did he? But of course you know that. The blokes a fruitloop so you dont need to exaggerate his stupidity
He went on to say: “Is there a way we can do something, by an injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus
wotsupcas wrote:But he didn't did he? But of course you know that. The blokes a fruitloop so you dont need to exaggerate his stupidity
He went on to say: “Is there a way we can do something, by an injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that.” https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... oronavirus
Joined: Nov 23 2009 Posts: 12749 Location: The Hamptons of East Yorkshire
Breaking news..................... Bozza has been found, and is, apparently, returning to work tomorrow. It's time for the greedy and gullible to rejoice.
No10 Cabinet Office table Monday morning,
BOZZA - 'Hi everybody, it's good to be back. It was 50/50 at one stage, even though I didn't need a ventilator.....It was a couple of foreigners that pulled me through, and while I've been at Chequers, recovering, my friend Donald rang and advised me to take lots of bleach.....I feel great and I've even made a promise to Carrie that I'm gonna start going to nappy change classes, so I might have to leave early.'
CUMMINGS - 'Ok Boris, good to see you, now go and sit in the corner and we'll give you a shout if we need anything.'
WIZEB wrote:Breaking news..................... Bozza has been found, and is, apparently, returning to work tomorrow. It's time for the greedy and gullible to rejoice.
No10 Cabinet Office table Monday morning,
BOZZA - 'Hi everybody, it's good to be back. It was 50/50 at one stage, even though I didn't need a ventilator.....It was a couple of foreigners that pulled me through, and while I've been at Chequers, recovering, my friend Donald rang and advised me to take lots of bleach.....I feel great and I've even made a promise to Carrie that I'm gonna start going to nappy change classes, so I might have to leave early.'
CUMMINGS - 'Ok Boris, good to see you, now go and sit in the corner and we'll give you a shout if we need anything.'
Dont tell the Daily Express, they have his return to work down as "the second coming".
One of the issues that has started to puzzle me and annoy me too, is that while Raab was telling us that there was no point in testing anyone because "there wasn't a reliable enough test", our former EU friends in Germany were more than happy to test their people and their number of deaths and death rate are a fraction of ours and not only do we know their strategy for coming out of lockdown, they are already beginning to open up. The UK on the other hand, has a number of deaths, which is close to double that of the official figure and isn't even prepared to contemplate publicly just how we even to begin to end the lockdown. The damage to business is colossal, something which we will take decades to recover from and there is no lead coming from government, none whatsoever.
I cant see Johnson hiding away though, it's not his style
wrencat1873 wrote:Dont tell the Daily Express, they have his return to work down as "the second coming".
One of the issues that has started to puzzle me and annoy me too, is that while Raab was telling us that there was no point in testing anyone because "there wasn't a reliable enough test", our former EU friends in Germany were more than happy to test their people and their number of deaths and death rate are a fraction of ours and not only do we know their strategy for coming out of lockdown, they are already beginning to open up. The UK on the other hand, has a number of deaths, which is close to double that of the official figure and isn't even prepared to contemplate publicly just how we even to begin to end the lockdown. The damage to business is colossal, something which we will take decades to recover from and there is no lead coming from government, none whatsoever.
I cant see Johnson hiding away though, it's not his style
I asked about this testing panacea by Germany before. Why is their death rate so low compared to Italy and Spain when their test rates per million are about the same. What other reasons are there because looking at the figures it can't be just testing.
Joined: Jun 29 2011 Posts: 1522 Location: PIE IN THE SKY DISH
wotsupcas wrote:I asked about this testing panacea by Germany before. Why is their death rate so low compared to Italy and Spain when their test rates per million are about the same. What other reasons are there because looking at the figures it can't be just testing.
It's a very good point. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52234061 "if you test a lot, you're also going to be testing a lot of people who don't have the virus or who have only mild symptoms. So, statistically, your death rate will look a lot lower than if you test only people who are already ill in hospital." I know they have more hospital ICU beds than the UK but they have more boarders & a larger population, from what we are being told it doesn't add up. I would like to know the facts about their lockdown process and protection for care homes. Do their care homes have resident doctors/consultants that don't visit multiple homes?
wotsupcas wrote:I asked about this testing panacea by Germany before. Why is their death rate so low compared to Italy and Spain when their test rates per million are about the same. What other reasons are there because looking at the figures it can't be just testing.
It's a very good point. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52234061 "if you test a lot, you're also going to be testing a lot of people who don't have the virus or who have only mild symptoms. So, statistically, your death rate will look a lot lower than if you test only people who are already ill in hospital." I know they have more hospital ICU beds than the UK but they have more boarders & a larger population, from what we are being told it doesn't add up. I would like to know the facts about their lockdown process and protection for care homes. Do their care homes have resident doctors/consultants that don't visit multiple homes?
wotsupcas wrote:I asked about this testing panacea by Germany before. Why is their death rate so low compared to Italy and Spain when their test rates per million are about the same. What other reasons are there because looking at the figures it can't be just testing.
Maybe it was just who they were testing ?
The point that I was making is that, the UK said the test wasn't good enough but, it does seem that Germany has a test that it is happy to use and that does appear to have been successful in helping. Meanwhile, in the UK we seem to go for over promising tests, PPE, number of deaths and have failed to hit any of its own targets. We also have a daily roll call for deaths in hospitals, which although possibly accurate, is utterly meaningless if it only includes around half of the total deaths caused by the virus.
Joined: Nov 23 2009 Posts: 12749 Location: The Hamptons of East Yorkshire
BOZZA 'Dommy, seeing as I've been a really good boy sat in the corner all this time while you've been having your important meeting, is there any chance I can ask you a question?'
CUMMINGS 'Go ahead Boris but make it brief'.
BOZZA 'Well I was just thinking Dommy, is there any chance I can stay up late on Thursday night so I can clap for the carers as I really had fun with little Rishi from next door last time?'
Joined: Jan 30 2005 Posts: 7152 Location: one day closer to death
wrencat1873 wrote:Maybe it was just who they were testing ?
The point that I was making is that, the UK said the test wasn't good enough but, it does seem that Germany has a test that it is happy to use and that does appear to have been successful in helping. Meanwhile, in the UK we seem to go for over promising tests, PPE, number of deaths and have failed to hit any of its own targets. We also have a daily roll call for deaths in hospitals, which although possibly accurate, is utterly meaningless if it only includes around half of the total deaths caused by the virus.
Germany has a vast network of decentralised private laboratories which has certainly helped. We simply don't have that capacity or flexibility. According to Speigel International it hasn't been all plain sailing, but they've done a great job.
Speigel wrote:Those who try in vain to get tested for the coronavirus these days can count on little more than the sympathy of German Health Minister Jens Spahn. It's a "deeply relatable feeling" that people want to know whether they're infected. However, in view of the "limited capacities," public health officials must decide "together" who gets to be tested and who doesn't. Not even Spahn knows just how big Germany's testing capacity is. There are hundreds of private laboratories distributed throughout the country, and that's in addition to university clinics and hospitals overseen by state governments.
I've mentioned this before, but they also have a far more disciplined and compliant society. They follow government instruction and don't have house parties or flock to parks and have mates round for bbqs just because it's sunny. There have been some small protests against their lockdown but the vast majority are sensible and compliant.
Also - and this is key - it seems Germany records the cause of death as any underlying condition even if the patient is confirmed with CV19, and testing for CV19 after death is not all that common. In the UK doctors can record CV19 as the direct or underlying cause of death regardless of underlying condition, and without the need for a positive CV19 test result, or the need for a coroner. Another reason why comparing different countries is never accurate.
We'll see a better picture when Germany publishes their number of total deaths for March, on 30th April.
Either way, this isn't going away. If someone tests positive and everyone around them is placed in quarantine, what happens next? They're back in society within about 2 weeks. Then - as we're seeing in Asia - it just comes back. Until there's a vaccine it'll just keep moving among the population and we simply cannot stay in lockdown in perpetuity, so we'll likely see a gradual easing of restrictions, maintaining social distancing, recommending masks, working from home where possible, perhaps changing how schools operate, continue to isolate those most at risk, continue to restrict mass gatherings, etc.
Testing capacity here is increasing rapidly and we'll soon see it rolled out nationwide, which will help enormously.
wrencat1873 wrote:Maybe it was just who they were testing ?
The point that I was making is that, the UK said the test wasn't good enough but, it does seem that Germany has a test that it is happy to use and that does appear to have been successful in helping. Meanwhile, in the UK we seem to go for over promising tests, PPE, number of deaths and have failed to hit any of its own targets. We also have a daily roll call for deaths in hospitals, which although possibly accurate, is utterly meaningless if it only includes around half of the total deaths caused by the virus.
Germany has a vast network of decentralised private laboratories which has certainly helped. We simply don't have that capacity or flexibility. According to Speigel International it hasn't been all plain sailing, but they've done a great job.
Speigel wrote:Those who try in vain to get tested for the coronavirus these days can count on little more than the sympathy of German Health Minister Jens Spahn. It's a "deeply relatable feeling" that people want to know whether they're infected. However, in view of the "limited capacities," public health officials must decide "together" who gets to be tested and who doesn't. Not even Spahn knows just how big Germany's testing capacity is. There are hundreds of private laboratories distributed throughout the country, and that's in addition to university clinics and hospitals overseen by state governments.
I've mentioned this before, but they also have a far more disciplined and compliant society. They follow government instruction and don't have house parties or flock to parks and have mates round for bbqs just because it's sunny. There have been some small protests against their lockdown but the vast majority are sensible and compliant.
Also - and this is key - it seems Germany records the cause of death as any underlying condition even if the patient is confirmed with CV19, and testing for CV19 after death is not all that common. In the UK doctors can record CV19 as the direct or underlying cause of death regardless of underlying condition, and without the need for a positive CV19 test result, or the need for a coroner. Another reason why comparing different countries is never accurate.
We'll see a better picture when Germany publishes their number of total deaths for March, on 30th April.
Either way, this isn't going away. If someone tests positive and everyone around them is placed in quarantine, what happens next? They're back in society within about 2 weeks. Then - as we're seeing in Asia - it just comes back. Until there's a vaccine it'll just keep moving among the population and we simply cannot stay in lockdown in perpetuity, so we'll likely see a gradual easing of restrictions, maintaining social distancing, recommending masks, working from home where possible, perhaps changing how schools operate, continue to isolate those most at risk, continue to restrict mass gatherings, etc.
Testing capacity here is increasing rapidly and we'll soon see it rolled out nationwide, which will help enormously.
You have to laugh at the return of the prodigal son. Just before the election, when he was ducking and diving, hiding in fridges, avoiding interviews, the Tory apologists were out in force saying Boris was being clever by avoiding all scrutiny and refusing interviews from high profile shows. Now those of us who knew he was a charlatan, and didn't vote for him, are expected to put our faith in him and trust him to do the right thing, despite being ridiculed for expecting him to face the music on the campaign trail. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.
This is why our leaders need to be held to account before, during and after elections.
"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him."
King Street Cat wrote:You have to laugh at the return of the prodigal son. Just before the election, when he was ducking and diving, hiding in fridges, avoiding interviews, the Tory apologists were out in force saying Boris was being clever by avoiding all scrutiny and refusing interviews from high profile shows. Now those of us who knew he was a charlatan, and didn't vote for him, are expected to put our faith in him and trust him to do the right thing, despite being ridiculed for expecting him to face the music on the campaign trail. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.
This is why our leaders need to be held to account before, during and after elections.
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