Sal Paradise wrote: the flagrant disregard of a democratic vote by the establishment who seem to have ridden rough shot over the vote.
Who are "the establishment" of which you and the Daily Mail speak?
For the billionth time, the reason we haven't left yet is because the ERG voted for us not to. I would definitely agree with you that they are the establishment, the absolute classic definition of it, but I imagine that's not what you meant.
"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs."
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17146 Location: Olicana - Home of 'Vark Slayer
The Ghost of '99 wrote:Who are "the establishment" of which you and the Daily Mail speak?
I'll second that question. More sensationalist paranoid nonsense.
“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.
Pumpetypump wrote:Thirded. It's a warped world where you look at Boris Johnson and Rees-Mogg and conclude that the other side are the "establishment".
You mean unelected Judges, Lords, Bishops and a defunct opposition turning the country soft.
The majority voted, democratically, to leave. Cringebin must have splinters he has been on the fence for so long.
It's OK though, his mate Neil Coyle shows Labour for the hypocrites they are. his Tweet to Piers Morgan shows Labour in their true, vile, hate filled, jealous, spineless, cowardly colours.
"Ban Private Schools" (just not the one my little cherubs go to)
"Tax the Rich" (so the workshy get more benefits)
"Open the Borders" (let everyone in)
But we don't mention facts when it comes to a spot of Boris Bashing, do we.
GE will come, Labour will be back in the minority doldrums, blaming everyone else for everything.
Joined: Oct 26 2005 Posts: 3829 Location: In the seaside town ...that they forgot to bomb
Cronus wrote:I've seen effigies of dead Tories hanging off a bridge and some "rapper" swinging an effigy of the decapitated head of Boris Johnson on stage, to cheers and applause. Not a dickybird of outrage. I've heard McDonnell stoking civil unrest and advocating violence against Tories, including "lynching" McVeigh. Which party is influencing their followers with their behaviour, I wonder?
You may have seen these things, but I & the majority of the population haven't, Bo-jo has a prime time gig to peddle his message.
Cronus wrote:Similarly, for 3 years leavers have had hate thrown at them, including but far from limited to: xenophobe, racist, facist, nazi, little englander, and far worse. You know that, you've been one of those doing it.
That "Little Englander" tag really gets under your skin doesn't it?
Cronus wrote:Some MPs are getting hate messages because 3-4 years ago they all voted for a referendum and promised to honour it. In June 2016 they all promised to "honour and respect" the result. They voted for Article 50. Most of them campaigned in 2017 on manifestos to LEAVE. Yet increasingly those on the opposite benches have lied. They've lied and lied and done their utmost to delay, hinder and reverse Brexit, because in fact they don't "honour and respect" the result or indeed those who voted for it. They think they're better and they know better. Many of those MPs "represent" leave constituencies and yet they act all shocked when their constituents get angry?
In all these years when did those "liars" promise they would facilitate leaving the E.U. without a deal?
It must have slipped your memory but there was a deal on the table, back when the Government had a working majority, yet it failed because of the "Little Englander" Tory M.P's.
Cronus wrote:Futhermore, the perception to those who are already pretty fed up, is that the Supreme Court is on their side, in a judgement that reads as little more than...we find it unlawful for little more reason than 5 weeks is too long and because we can. It really is that weak. Not that I expect you've read it.
Why should I read it, I'm not some kind of anorak. All I know is that the highest court in the land, not in Europe, deemed it wrong. If they had agreed with the length of the prorogation I would have been fine with that too.
Cronus wrote:You can't behave that way and not expect a backlash. People are angry, yes, but if anything Johnson says is influencing that, it's a tiny influence. You simply cannot continue to p*ss off 17.4m people who expected their vote to be enacted and not expect anger in return.
A tiny influence in your eyes maybe, but his antics are the first news item on every T.V. across the land.
In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats! They're eating the pets!
Joined: Jan 30 2005 Posts: 7152 Location: one day closer to death
The Ghost of '99 wrote:FFS, again with the misinformation. The only reason we're still in the EU is because Tory MPs of the hard right voted down the withdrawal agreement. End of discussion. The Tories negotiated a Tory Brexit but couldn't get their MPs to vote it. It's not up to the opposition to vote through Tory legislation. If they had wanted cross party support they would have come back with a deal which at least played lip service to the concerns of Labour MPs.
The referendum was called by a Conservative Prime Minister to deal with a split in the Conservative party. It was voted for by mostly Conservative voters, the exit deal was negotiated by Conservative ministers and the deal didn't get passed because Conservative MPs didn't support the Conservative bill. But apparently it's the fault of the opposition that this sh1tshow hasn't happened yet.
Those Tories really are big into people taking personal responsibility for their actions; except when it relates to themselves.
You keep trotting this out as your big punchline but it's meaningless. All you're trying to do is absolve the opposition from any responsibility in enacting the result of the referendum.
They voted to hold a referendum, they voted for Article 50, they campaigned on leave manifestos, they promised to "honour and respect" the result...yet here we are. Approx 150 Labour constituencies voted to leave, yet only around 5 Labour MPs have chosen to "honour" that vote. Time after time they act and vote to hinder and delay, preferring to damage the government rather than enacting the referendum. They are a hypocritical disgrace. And you wonder why people are angry.
Yes, the ERG are as guilty as anyone of preventing the vote, but not because they want to reverse it and frankly they're only small in number. 34 Tories voted against the deal last time, versus 234 Labour and the rest of the shirkers.
Have you gone and discovered the true ideology and long-term goals of the EU yet? Care to share your findings?
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17146 Location: Olicana - Home of 'Vark Slayer
IR80 wrote:You mean unelected Judges, Lords, Bishops and a defunct opposition turning the country soft.
IR80 wrote: blaming everyone else for everything.
“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.
Joined: Jan 30 2005 Posts: 7152 Location: one day closer to death
The Devil's Advocate wrote:You may have seen these things, but I & the majority of the population haven't, Bo-jo has a prime time gig to peddle his message.
I can only presume you spend no time on any media of any form.
Quote:That "Little Englander" tag really gets under your skin doesn't it?
Haha nope, call me what you like, I couldn't give a shiny sht. Many here have tried to offend or upset me, all have failed. How odd you plucked that one example from the list? Your favourite little insult, is it?
Quote:In all these years when did those "liars" promise they would facilitate leaving the E.U. without a deal?
They promised to leave. Not to do everything they can to delay and reverse it.
Quote:It must have slipped your memory but there was a deal on the table, back when the Government had a working majority, yet it failed because of the "Little Englander" Tory M.P's.
I refer your to my answer in the post above.
Quote:Why should I read it, I'm not some kind of anorak. All I know is that the highest court in the land, not in Europe, deemed it wrong. If they had agreed with the length of the prorogation I would have been fine with that too.
I can happily dismiss anything you say on the matter then. As you were.
Quote:A tiny influence in your eyes maybe, but his antics are the first news item on every T.V. across the land.
As are the screaming, yelling opposition MPs with hate strewn across their miserable screwed up faces, hurling their abuse and vitriol across the Commons for hour after hour. You ignore that bit, don'tcha?
Joined: Oct 26 2005 Posts: 3829 Location: In the seaside town ...that they forgot to bomb
Cronus wrote:I can only presume you spend no time on any media of any form.
Well, I'm on here aren't I does that count?
Cronus wrote:Haha nope, call me what you like, I couldn't give a shiny sht. Many here have tried to offend or upset me, all have failed. How odd you plucked that one example from the list? Your favourite little insult, is it?
The thing is I don't call you anything, I wouldn't lower myself with personnel insults.
Cronus wrote:They promised to leave. Not to do everything they can to delay and reverse it.
Again, they didn't promise to crash out without a deal.
Cronus wrote:As are the screaming, yelling opposition MPs with hate strewn across their miserable screwed up faces, hurling their abuse and vitriol across the Commons for hour after hour. You ignore that bit, don'tcha?
I'm not talking about hour after hour, just the headline news report on the flagship shows, you appear to be in the camp of, if you don't back the plan for the glorious revolution, you are fair game to be abused by the countries P.M.
In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats! They're eating the pets!
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