Not this same old rubbish please. It is 27 countries to 1 they are not going to cave in.

Like what?

But they’ve also got a massive amount to lose by capitulating and offering the sort of deal that might be acceptable to the ERG hardliners.

The withdrawal agreement is pretty much exactly in line with sensible expectations based on May’s red lines and there is no sign of BJ dropping those. If countries leaving are allowed to cherry pick then they’ll all leave and then there’d be no EU.

The Irish border problem could be kicked down the road, i suppose. But the current backstop is just one of three unpopular choices. Ultimately there has to be a customs union, or we have to abandon the Good Friday agreement and have a border in Ireland, or we have to have different rules in NI and GB. Whichever way we choose to jump, we might as well do it now as later. I understand wanting to leave options on the table, but when they’re all so unpalatable i’m not sure it is hugely valuable.

27 percent of all Germans car exports are to the UK. And as us ,Germany and France are the only nett contributors to the EU coffers the small matter of 39 billion quid.

Well we'll see whose right in the fullness of time. And if you don't think Germany has a bigger say than say , Portugal I think you're being naive in the extreme

Three years on and they have not caved. Wasn't this supposed to be the easiest thing in the world?

I hope you are right, because if you are wrong you and your mates have sunk this country.

Of course they haven't relented , why would they. Theresa may never told them we would walk . Think it was Barnier that said no deal was never mentioned by the British negotiators. And how have I sunk this country?

Setting aside the national interest and trying to think like a politician...

Brexit is a massive blame bomb and nobody wants it to go off in their hands. You’re either failing to honour democracy by preventing it or responsible for the consequences of delivering it. So it is key to shape perceptions so that it seems like somebody else is making the decision.

Boris Johnson’s plan seems to be:
1. Make the EU an offer they can’t accept
2. Hope parliament (mostly Labour) block no deal (or, less likely, take a share of the blame for letting it proceed)
3. Go for a general election saying he did everything he could but that he was stymied by the perfidious EU and treacherous socialists, winning over Brexit party voters, while the remain vote is split
4. Big majority, 5 more years and room to manoeuvre - he won’t have thought any further than that

Labour, seeing this coming, won’t want to be stuck on point 2 - either voting down no deal and denying Brexit voters their dream, or allowing it and being consigned to electoral irrelevance as many of their voters switch to the Lib Dems. They’ve been banging on about a GE for what seems like forever, but a no deal versus remain referendum first would now be more attractive for them imo. No deal is sufficiently different from what was pitched in 2016 to justify another vote, again imo. And either Boris/no deal loses or Labour dodge any share of the blame if the people decide to take the no deal plunge, and they can push for a GE again if/when it all goes a bit shizzle.

Just when I thought this whole fiasco couldn't get anymore bizarre, we now have the honorable member for the 18th century sat on the front bench!

I just hope when the right wing ultra's reach Brexit Nirvana their next mission is to bring back the death penalty, hopefully followed by a new act of crimes against the state.

Imagine a pay-per-view channel with the leading "vote leave" protagonists summarily executed - now, that's entertainment.

Wow. Just wow. The more I hear from the left wing ultras on here makes me more determined to stay just right of centre.