And as you said, you had the same "education" as Ben Westwood, so your opinion counts for little in my eyes.

Brilliant & accurate. Though I never had Ron Mael from Sparks as a Male reader.

God this site is boring with all the socialists ruining any and every thread, allwy cat, kitten tot, it's a blumin farce.

Can I suggest you go to Mail Online? You will find just what you are looking for there.

No, quite happy here, thanks. it's called democracy, something you maybe want to read up on.

I never realised being a socialist, old idiot all came together. But then I should have seen that with Cringebin.

This thread has remained remarkably polite given the subject matter so let's not have it trashed by name calling. Pretty please.

I was thinking much the same.

Corbyn’s behaviour yesterday was pathetic. But attempts at cross party would have probably been scuppered anyway by a mutiny in the Tory ranks. I’m frustrated that May has tailored a deal to try to meet the demands of group that don’t want a realistic deal, but the problem is systemic - she couldn’t really do anything very different.

With a few dishonourable exceptions, this isn’t about politicians being abnormally horrible or incompetent. It is more a systems failure.

The anger may be palpable, but not all indignation is righteous or well-directed. That doesn’t make it any less dangerous, but it makes it pretty much impossible to address in a sensible or constructive way.

A series of decisions, which each individually could be seen as rational from the decision-maker’s perspective, have together brought to the brink of national calamity. And it is easier to make sense of things if there is a villain, and we can blame somebody else. So people probably will. I think we all ought to take ownership of this mess - we won’t, but we should.

The heads of the CBI and TUC were on the news together urging the Govt to take a new direction. Maybe that’s the green shoots. We’ve shafted ourselves, but perhaps we’ll learn from it. Catastrophes have led to positive changes at times in the past... and further catastrophes at others, admittedly.

I’m glad I bought all that bog-roll, I tell you!

Of course the hardest Brexiteers don't agree with her handling of it. Neither do the hardest Remainers. Or the reasonably hard Brexiteers or reasonably hard Remainers. Or those with their own individual ideas of what Brexit should look like. Do you see the point?

There is simply no deal that would satisfy everyone, indeed probably never enough to get voted through. Any deal brought back by anyone was always going to be rejected initially. However I'm dismayed so few MPs are still willing to see sense and get a deal that can do a reasonable job in place.

Cross-party would have made zero difference, because it's not a party issue. The challenges would have been the same and we'd have seen more, not fewer departures from the decision-making group due to the inevitable and additional friction this would have brought. Christ, Corbyn can't handle cross-party talks even now unless they're strictly on his terms.

So yes, I lambaste all MPs (or at least all those unwilling to compromise) for dragging us all through further pain and making weak, agenda-driven excuses instead of getting on with the job they're feckin well supposed to do.