Bullseye wrote:If leave voters in marginalised areas think the Tories give a monkey’s about them they’re deluded. Trouble is that for years few others have either, including Labour. The EU means nothing to many people in these areas. Nobody articulated how it benefits them to be in it. They only heard the downside. So when the referendum came along it was a stick with which to beat the establishment.
Indeed - and quite how the likes of Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and JRM managed to be re-cast as anti-establishment men of the people is utterly beyond me; that was perhaps one of the biggest failings of our mainstream media, in that they allowed these people to spout their swivel-eyed lies and anti-EU rhetoric, without any genuine challenge.
I'm resigned to some form of Brexit now, but by the Government's own estimate, it will be an absolute economic disaster for everyone but the super-rich, but will hit those marginalised, leave-voting areas worst of all. Then who will they blame?
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 32067 Location: The Corridor of Uncertainty
bren2k wrote:I'm resigned to some form of Brexit now, but by the Government's own estimate, it will be an absolute economic disaster for everyone but the super-rich, but will hit those marginalised, leave-voting areas worst of all. Then who will they blame?
The establishment of course. "They're all the same".
I fear that the rise of political extremes will continue. Nothing helps the extremist more than feelings of marginalisation and disaffection amongst the electorate especially if that is accompanied by economic hardship.
This is only the beginning.
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
Joined: May 30 2009 Posts: 455 Location: Warrington
wrencat1873 wrote:Is Ireland going to be the issue that prevents a deal and if so, what happens next ?
Unless a decent number of Labour politicians support Mrs May and Corbyn is telling them not to, there doesnt look any way that the deal will make it through Parliament.
Why wasn't such an important issue discussed with the voters, instead of the big red bus ??
This is a very important issue and to be fair it is something I never thought about or even considered. If I would have thought about it I am sure that I would have come to the conclusion that the two countries that a no deal would be worse for and as two sovereign states could get their heads together and solve this every important issue between them, without help from the EU.
Joined: May 30 2009 Posts: 455 Location: Warrington
bren2k wrote:Indeed - and quite how the likes of Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and JRM managed to be re-cast as anti-establishment men of the people is utterly beyond me; that was perhaps one of the biggest failings of our mainstream media, in that they allowed these people to spout their swivel-eyed lies and anti-EU rhetoric, without any genuine challenge.
I'm resigned to some form of Brexit now, but by the Government's own estimate, it will be an absolute economic disaster for everyone but the super-rich, but will hit those marginalised, leave-voting areas worst of all. Then who will they blame?
The governments estimates I believe was concerning a no deal Brexit, as it was mentioned on daily politics today that these government estimates were for the short term only estimates as nobody can predict the long term future.
You high and mighty remoaners make my booty ache. just get used to the FACT that even though the government spent MILLIONS on the leaflets telling the electorate why we should remain which I'm sure you lot will think was totally democratic and justified (a total waste of public money imo), the then chancellor also said that if the country voted to leave the economy would completely collapse, both sides also said time and time again that to leave the EU would mean leaving the single market and the customs union and still the country voted democratically I might add to leave.
reading your posts I feel really sorry for us poor 17+ million marginalised individuals who voted to leave.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17160 Location: Olicana - Home of 'Vark Slayer
If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.
“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.
Joined: May 30 2009 Posts: 455 Location: Warrington
tigertot wrote:If a democracy cannot change its mind, it ceases to be a democracy.
I agree in general that's why we have elections every 5 years or so that is our democracy, however, this was not an election it was promised and put to the British electorate as a one off referendum. It was also promised by the people who we democratically elected that there would not be another referendum that should now be honoured
I don't know if you know something I don't mate but there is no indication that the British public has radically changed its mind.
POSTL wrote:I agree in general that's why we have elections every 5 years or so that is our democracy, however, this was not an election it was promised and put to the British electorate as a one off referendum. It was also promised by the people who we democratically elected that there would not be another referendum that should now be honoured
I don't know if you know something I don't mate but there is no indication that the British public has radically changed its mind.
It's easier to fool people than it is to get people to admit they've been fooled (Mark Twain).
Jamie Jones-Buchanan
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire"
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 32067 Location: The Corridor of Uncertainty
Here's what Leave said:
One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected.
One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected.
Joined: May 30 2009 Posts: 455 Location: Warrington
Bullseye wrote:Here's what Leave said:
One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected.
Ive never heard of the Leave Alliance to be fair, and I'm not going to argue with either side of the argument re leaving on WTO rules because I just don't know, however, I do find it a bit OTT to say that the 5th largest economy in the world could not survive on WTO but hey. I have said on previous posts that I am absolutely not against a deal with the EU which would keep us in a customs union and a trade trade agreement, that is why we joined what was the Common Market in the first place.
Bullseye wrote:Here's what Leave said:
One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected.
Ive never heard of the Leave Alliance to be fair, and I'm not going to argue with either side of the argument re leaving on WTO rules because I just don't know, however, I do find it a bit OTT to say that the 5th largest economy in the world could not survive on WTO but hey. I have said on previous posts that I am absolutely not against a deal with the EU which would keep us in a customs union and a trade trade agreement, that is why we joined what was the Common Market in the first place.
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