Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 32084 Location: The Corridor of Uncertainty
bren2k wrote:Wouldn't it be interesting to see an election campaign run based on policies and facts, rather than personalities, spin and whomever has the most effective command of a Facebook algorithm?
It would but it'll never happen.
Until Labour accept that and deal with it I just can’t see them winning a general election. That frustrates me.
Blair understood what he needed to do to get elected. They stole the Tory’s clothes by mirroring their spending plans. They set up a rapid rebuttal unit to deal with the smears and lies. They also had front benchers that could communicate well and appeal to the interviewers and agenda setters in the MSM. It’s a game Labour now seem unable or unwilling to play Corbyn. Take the remark that McDonnell made about Churchill the other week. He walked right into that. It shows he’s either naïve or not bothered. Either way it all adds fuel to the fire that Labour supporters then complain about when they get a raw deal in the MSM.
If they can't get this right how can they run the country? That's what people will be thinking. It doesn't matter that the Tories are making a mess, Labour have to show they can do better and they can only begin to do that if they get the presentation right.
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
bren2k wrote:Not just great headlines - when policies like that are actually given oxygen, they're hugely popular amongst voters; and the water issue in particular has been tested by serious financial journalists, and proven to be affordable.
My issue with Corbyn and genuine Labour MP's more broadly, is that the MSM is so stacked against them, that we rarely see grown up discussions about their ideas and policies - so lots of people form a view based on personal smears or lies; the antisemitism circus is the most mendacious example - with facts proving that a vanishingly small number of Labour members have been guilty of antisemitism, that incidents are dramatically lower than they were under Tony Blair, and that there is a bigger problem on the right - not to mention the institutional Islamophobia that exists in the Tory party - but never seems to get any attention in the media.
To suggest that Corbyn himself is anti-Semitic is beyond ridiculous - but so long as criticism of the apartheid government of Israel is spun as antisemitism - even to the point that Jews who oppose the brutality against the Palestinians are labelled as self-hating, or the wrong kind of Jew, then we're going to be stuck in a situation where anyone who wants to score cheap points against JC or Labour, can trot out that line and it goes unchallenged by most of the media.
Wouldn't it be interesting to see an election campaign run based on policies and facts, rather than personalities, spin and whomever has the most effective command of a Facebook algorithm?
The difficulty for labour is that they are saying EXACTLY the same as they were 2+ years ago about listening and rooting out anti-Semitic issues etc Corbyn may not be of this persuasion but, as leader, HE has to deal with it and he has chosen not to. You may know why this is but, much like his views on the EU, he prefers to sit on the fence and hope that he can seize power without publicly tackling these issues.
How are you feeling about the "magnificent 7 (11)". If this movement continues to grow, which looks likely, it's going to make both of the main parties nervous ?
Joined: Aug 09 2011 Posts: 1906 Location: Deepest North Yorkshire Woodland
tigertot wrote:Brilliant, insightful comment as ever Backwardsman. What the country really needs is a progressive, forward thinking politician from the Middle-ages, like Jacob Rees-Mogg, to hold it to ransom. You are like a privatised bus service, nothing turns up for weeks, then a knackered, out of date old banger crawls out.
Many thanks for your kind comments. I also share your dismay at accusations directed towards Corbyn. It’s a complete mystery how jezza could be anti-Semite when he is friends with hezbollah and hamas. Regarding his prospects of forming the next government. I agree with you jezza should be well ahead of the polls. He is surely on a winner with socialism a tried and tested formula. The people of Venezuela as they leave the country speak loudly and clearly regarding socialism. Hopefully jezza will come good in the end. So we will get to see Diane Abbott and david lammy in power cheered on by that little scamp Owen Jones. What a mouth watering prospect. Anyway keep the red flag flying and up the workers.
There needs to be a law written regarding this!!! I see it the length and breadth of the Internet.
Just as Godwin's law predicts that online discussion growing longer will lead to the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler, this new law will predict that the mention of 'Corbyn', followed by the mention of 'socialism', will inevitably result in the mention of 'Venezuela'.
Awesome work Backwoodsman, you totally smashed it!
"Back home we got a taxidermy man. He gonna have a heart attack when he see what I brung him."
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17161 Location: Olicana - Home of 'Vark Slayer
Strinket wrote:HOUSE!
Cheers Backwoodsman.
You’re the dream ticket for those of us who like to play a game of ‘Racist Moron Bingo’.
With an added line of homophobia as a bonus.
“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.
Charlie Sheen wrote:I found this interesting (albeit lengthy) twitter thread regarding Corbyn, and Labour's alleged problem with antisemitism. Worth a read.
Interesting blog, although the finger being pointed at Corbyn is not that he is anti-Semitic but, that he is failing to deal with the issue within his own party and as leader, it's up to him ? We all know what the "establishment" and MSM are capable of, with Hillsborough being just one shocking example of a whole city being smeared. However, Corbyn has to fight his corner and stop sitting on the bloody fence.
The Tories have been badly split and woeful in their handling of Brexit but, Labour, instead of "selling" their viewpoint have largely sat on their hands, hoping for a Tory implosion, rather than risk putting their own viewpoint forward. This is for one of two reasons, either they (Labour) are similarly split on the issue and/ or, he hoped that he could seize power by keeping schtum.
Charlie Sheen wrote:I found this interesting (albeit lengthy) twitter thread regarding Corbyn, and Labour's alleged problem with antisemitism. Worth a read.
Interesting blog, although the finger being pointed at Corbyn is not that he is anti-Semitic but, that he is failing to deal with the issue within his own party and as leader, it's up to him ? We all know what the "establishment" and MSM are capable of, with Hillsborough being just one shocking example of a whole city being smeared. However, Corbyn has to fight his corner and stop sitting on the bloody fence.
The Tories have been badly split and woeful in their handling of Brexit but, Labour, instead of "selling" their viewpoint have largely sat on their hands, hoping for a Tory implosion, rather than risk putting their own viewpoint forward. This is for one of two reasons, either they (Labour) are similarly split on the issue and/ or, he hoped that he could seize power by keeping schtum.
Joined: Aug 09 2011 Posts: 1906 Location: Deepest North Yorkshire Woodland
King Street Cat wrote:quote="Backwoodsman"]...Corbyn...socialism...Venezuela...
There needs to be a law written regarding this!!! I see it the length and breadth of the Internet.
Just as Godwin's law predicts that online discussion growing longer will lead to the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler, this new law will predict that the mention of 'Corbyn', followed by the mention of 'socialism', will inevitably result in the mention of 'Venezuela'.
Awesome work Backwoodsman, you totally smashed it![/quote] Love your command of the English language (smashed it) .I point out the spectacular Faiilure of socialism in Venezuela because corbyn and Livingston and the rest of the left wing hierarchy have for years held up Venezuela ,as a paragon of virtue. This was to be how a government should be run, meanwhile the country is destitute. Strangely they are now silent on the issue. Although Livingston as usual is blaming it all on the Americans. If you like we could discuss other socialist disasters, Russia for instance. Corbyns puppet master milne still is in rapture to the delights of socialism/communism.
wrencat1873 wrote:Interesting blog, although the finger being pointed at Corbyn is not that he is anti-Semitic but, that he is failing to deal with the issue within his own party and as leader, it's up to him
And here's the rub - he has, in his own measured way; the party has been quietly dealing with allegations of AS and found that of 673 allegations, 400 were about non-Labour members; the rest have been dealt with, and they published the figures recently, despite it being even more ammunition for the anti-Corbyn crowd to fire at him.
So 0.1% of the membership has been found guilty of some level of anti-Semitic behaviour and sanctioned accordingly; that's a vanishingly small % of the largest membership of any political party in Europe, and a much smaller % than in Labour under the Blair/Brown/Milliband years - and significantly smaller than on the right, and in wider society. Meanwhile, prominent Muslims have levelled allegations of endemic Islamophobia at the Tories, and the media remains silent on that issue - no calls for enquiries, expulsions or resignations - and no equivalent of the Chakrabarti report that Corbyn commissioned in 2016.
There's no doubt that some people are anti-Semitic - just as some are racist or prejudiced towards people who can be described as 'other' - maybe even towards people who have a 'funny tinge' - and that needs dealing with wherever it rears its head; not least the re-emergence of the casual, knockabout racism that the Brexit issue has created, but the weaponisation of antisemitism does a disservice to Jews and turns the whole issue into a political football.
And once and for all - being vehemently opposed to the brutal oppression of the Palestinian people is *not* anti-Semitic - and to suggest so, is to diminish the voices of the many Jews who also oppose the apartheid policies of Netanyahu and his thuggish regime.
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