Backwoodsman wrote:Funny old world isn’t it ? If you fly air lingus from Dublin to the USA you are cleared for USA entry by American customs officials in Dublin Airport. So the USA border in this instance is in Dublin.A simple practical solution to avoid congestion at USA airports. The Northern Ireland border problem is only a problem because the Brussels bureaucracy is making it a problem. Unfortunately the Irish government is dancing to the EU tune. Quite bizarre when both Eire and the U.K. both state they don’t want a border. Yet this scenario is potentially threatening the completion of the withdrawal agreement. Perhaps the EU doesn’t want a deal. Probably suits them to punish us as a warning to prevent any other country escaping the EU. Meanwhile in the real world youth unemployment in Italy, Greece and Spain remains high. Macron sneers at us whilst the majority of France has seen living standards fall year on year. Vast parts of the country is in open revolt.I have quite a few friends who live in France they are extremely concerned at the present situation. Italy is slipping into a recession, they like the French soon take to the streets. Looking forward to Albania joining the EU apparently it won’t be long. I am certain they will make a positive contribution to the EU. On the other hand maybe not.
It's a damn sight easier to control a couple of hundred people getting on a plane, who cant do anything until the plane touches down, than it is to control the movement of goods and people accross an "open" borer between N. Ireland and Eire. It's been pointed out many, many times just how rife "smuggling" was back in the day, especially in the border towns. The old favourites of petrol and tobacco were bought and sold accross the border (in both directions) and the Irish (both halves) do love the old "cash transactions" and this is when the transfer of goods is open.
Joined: Aug 09 2011 Posts: 1906 Location: Deepest North Yorkshire Woodland
wrencat1873 wrote:It's a damn sight easier to control a couple of hundred people getting on a plane, who cant do anything until the plane touches down, than it is to control the movement of goods and people accross an "open" borer between N. Ireland and Eire. It's been pointed out many, many times just how rife "smuggling" was back in the day, especially in the border towns. The old favourites of petrol and tobacco were bought and sold accross the border (in both directions) and the Irish (both halves) do love the old "cash transactions" and this is when the transfer of goods is open.
With respect you are missing my point, a problem with a border issue was identified and was resolved. Many ideas/solutions have been proposed to solve the Irish border problem. Unfortunately Varadkar is taking instructions from the EU bureaucrats, so is not offering any sensible ideas. Various reports have indicated the Irish beef industry will be hard hit with a hard Brexit, potentially large scale bankruptcy. I can fully understand the growing resentment in Eire that they didn’t create this situation but Varadkar and his puppet masters in Brussels need to realise time is ticking away. Strange that people forget that before the EU customs union we traded successfully with Europe. We also trade successfully with the USA and the Far East, without the structure of a customs union.
Backwoodsman wrote:Strange that people forget that before the EU customs union we traded successfully with Europe. We also trade successfully with the USA and the Far East, without the structure of a customs union.
We could trade "successfully" under WTO terms but, this may be at a lower level and it would also have certain inflationary pressures. We also traded with a hard border in Northern Ireland but, I'm not sure that too many want to go back to those times.
The worst government lead by the worst prime minister this country has ever had is trying to win an argument, mainly within the Tories themselves, rather than negotiate the best deal we can.
It's laughable that people from within that group are saying the E.U. members are being awkward. A deal was negotiated and agreed. The situation now is that we either accept the deal, reject it and leave without one or, forget the whole thing and remain a member.
Its nothing to do with the E.U. It's entirely down to parliament unfortunately.
Jamie Jones-Buchanan
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire"
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12664 Location: Leicestershire.
Backwoodsman wrote:With respect you are missing my point, a problem with a border issue was identified and was resolved. Many ideas/solutions have been proposed to solve the Irish border problem. Unfortunately Varadkar is taking instructions from the EU bureaucrats, so is not offering any sensible ideas. Various reports have indicated the Irish beef industry will be hard hit with a hard Brexit, potentially large scale bankruptcy. I can fully understand the growing resentment in Eire that they didn’t create this situation but Varadkar and his puppet masters in Brussels need to realise time is ticking away. Strange that people forget that before the EU customs union we traded successfully with Europe. We also trade successfully with the USA and the Far East, without the structure of a customs union.
The world has changed. For example, since 1973 the ratio of trade to economic output has increased from 48% to 67%.
Out of interest, which alternative arrangement(s) do you think May should propose to the EU?
As I pointed out earlier on, people are often motivated by values as much or more than they are by economic self interest. That played a role in delivering Brexit. Looking at the links Cronus posted, it seems that Irish public opinion is at least as important as EU influence. If project fear didn’t work here, why would it work there? Given the history, i struggle to imagine much appetite there for caving in to self-entitled English pantomime villains like JRM, Boris Johnson and IDS. They don’t have the learned deference to our gormer toffs that afflicts some many English people.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Joined: May 30 2009 Posts: 455 Location: Warrington
Backwoodsman wrote:Funny old world isn’t it ? If you fly air lingus from Dublin to the USA you are cleared for USA entry by American customs officials in Dublin Airport. So the USA border in this instance is in Dublin.A simple practical solution to avoid congestion at USA airports. The Northern Ireland border problem is only a problem because the Brussels bureaucracy is making it a problem. Unfortunately the Irish government is dancing to the EU tune. Quite bizarre when both Eire and the U.K. both state they don’t want a border. Yet this scenario is potentially threatening the completion of the withdrawal agreement. Perhaps the EU doesn’t want a deal. Probably suits them to punish us as a warning to prevent any other country escaping the EU. Meanwhile in the real world youth unemployment in Italy, Greece and Spain remains high. Macron sneers at us whilst the majority of France has seen living standards fall year on year. Vast parts of the country is in open revolt.I have quite a few friends who live in France they are extremely concerned at the present situation. Italy is slipping into a recession, they like the French soon take to the streets. Looking forward to Albania joining the EU apparently it won’t be long. I am certain they will make a positive contribution to the EU. On the other hand maybe not.
If Ireland and US can do it then for god sake you would have thought they could work it out with the near neighbours. In my opinion you are absolutely right re Ireland dancing to the EU's tune, ive said before why on earth can Ireland and Uk get their heads together as so sovereign nations and put it to the EU.
POSTL wrote:If Ireland and US can do it then for god sake you would have thought they could work it out with the near neighbours. In my opinion you are absolutely right re Ireland dancing to the EU's tune, ive said before why on earth can Ireland and Uk get their heads together as so sovereign nations and put it to the EU.
Both halves of Ireland are happy with how things are (in terms of the border). Unfortunately, the DUP, who are propping up Mrs May, have their own ideas and despite being the only part of the UK that has a physical border with the EU (Eire), dont want to be "different" from the rest of the UK, which is impossible.
Joined: May 30 2009 Posts: 455 Location: Warrington
wrencat1873 wrote:Both halves of Ireland are happy with how things are (in terms of the border). Unfortunately, the DUP, who are propping up Mrs May, have their own ideas and despite being the only part of the UK that has a physical border with the EU (Eire), dont want to be "different" from the rest of the UK, which is impossible.
yep they are, the problem with then DUP was the border issue and they would have ended up with a closer relationship with the EU than the rest of the UK.
I agree we do need to keep the status Quo as much as possible, I was listening to a guy on tv he was saying that the Nationalists feel part of Irish Republic because of the lack of a border, just as the Loyalists (DUP) don't want any border that would make them feel detached from the UK which must be maintained for both sides
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