You've landed on one of Mrs May's red lines - which appears to be something of a hangover from her days in the Home Office, when she was responsible for creating the 'Hostile Environment' - typified by her infamous speech where she stated we could 'deport first and ask questions later.' She is obsessed with immigration - but strangely didn't use the powers that were available to her as Home Sec to curtail EU migration.

It seems to me that the gammony, UKIP types, who certainly did have immigration as their main concern, were pandered to by the lies of Farage and Johnson in the referendum campaign - and Mrs May is both emboldened by that sentiment, and afeared of losing those people as voters, so sticks doggedly to the plan that allows her to end FoM - despite all the evidence that it would have a negative impact on the economy - and on UK migrants in the EU, who we rather sweetly refer to as ex-pats rather than migrants, because they're somehow nicer when they're British?

As for Cronus' analogy of a boardroom negotiation - it doesn't exist, apart from perhaps in his 80's movie fantasy world, where the protagonist risks everything to stare down his opponent and win the day; this isn't a business deal - it's a hugely complicated socio-economic partnership that has developed over 40 years and has seen the EU countries harmonise to an impressive and mutually beneficial degree; no amount of puffed up, self-important English bluster will make that any different - and any negotiator who used the threat of no-deal, and all the harm it would bring, as a bargaining chip, would not be taken seriously. If we must leave the EU, it is the responsibility of those in power to do so in a way that has the least harmful effect on the UK economy - which would of course be by staying in *a* customs union and being closely aligned to the single market... If only someone was proposing a plan like that.

Just as a general point, I do love a good debate and that's what were having here, even though I voted to leave, I do respect all the views of you guys that voted to remain, yes we do sometimes wonder where or how somebody has come to a particular opinion on both sides, I have heard people voted to remain because they still want to go on holiday or they see themselves as more European than British.

At heart we are all Rugby League fans, and for the most part and apart from the banter during the match, we do respect each other and all have something massive in common which is our game.

The point I want to make is Cum on the Wire (Its always our year)

Behaviour breeds behaviour. If you're going to be condescending expect it back.

No answer to the post? No surprise there.

You're making plenty of odd assumptions there.

The Irish are absolutely desperate to avoid a hard border. Moreso than anyone else at the table, including the UK. If negotiations fail to the point of no deal and a hard border, the EU MUST blink. It's nothing to do with being weak, it's simply the reality of the situation. If things reach that point do you think Ireland will simply carry on with their approach to date, which has been a very childish, "you chose to leave, you sort it out"?

It's not ideal and it would mark a failure of Parliament, but it could work to our advantage.

Similarly, it would mark a failure of the EU to negotiate reasonably. Let's face it, they don't have a glowing track record in crisis situations and another failure sends the wrong message to a already fragmenting Europe.

We may not be in a dominant position right now but the threat of a hard border is a a powerful one which overshadows everything else.

But puffed-up self-important EU bluster is fine?

You're not reading what I'm saying. If Parliament fail to agree a deal (which is a very real possibility), and the EU remain as stubborn as ever, the threat of a no deal and hard border looms over everything.

Point out where I've said we're using (or should be using) it as a threat. That anyone is sat in a boardroom staring down anyone. I haven't. But it doesn't change the fact it's still there in the background.

FYI boardroom negotiations are often also incredibly complex and can take years of talks involving dozens of different parties. The threat of walking away is always in the background, just as the threat of no deal/hard border is right now. No one generally says "do it or we walk away", but it's still a possibility right up to the point the process succeeds or fails.

It may have escaped your notice, but Ireland are an EU member and would be thrown off a cliff in the event of a hard border. They know it all too well, hence a hardening of their language in recent weeks. You think the EU will go along with that?

I fully accept it could go to sh#t and we all go off a cliff. But there is still time for the EU to finally show some flexibility when one of their members is under threat of a dire economic hit - a hit they can do something about

Hopefully a deal will be agreed and none of it will be necessary.

My RICS fees are due now. A snip at >£500.....Fortunately my employer pays.


All my work is over the OJEU threshold. It is based on the Euro & is currently c£4m. It can add to the process but not really if you develop a design in parallel & it only applies to public procurement anyway. What is interesting, & largely unknown, is that under EU law public works under that figure does not have to follow the process. However the UK Govt has decreed that all public works over £25k (yes £25k) has to be advertised in Contracts Finder & any company can apply & you follow almost exactly the same process as through OJEU.

Yet we are happy to have to start such negotiations with numerous countries to replace the EU trade deals from a position of desperate weakness.

P21+ is the govt fudge around OJEU

The £25k is the figure at which public capital schemes have to go out to full tender, making us spend your money wisely

Although I am in a different sector, I tend to write our ITT's to make sure we get the vendor we want, it's jumping through hoops for the sake of it.

Absolutely mate