Call Me God wrote:As an ex-pat who has no real interest in the results of this fiasco (other than the sale of my last property in London before it happens), here's my tenpenneth's worth.
The majority....as in the most people who voted, who voted leave voted that way due to a heavy media bias, latent racism, anti-muslim rhetoric, false claims about revenue to the EU and basically because they were swept along on a jingoistic wave of Rule Britannia. The Minority...as in the fewer people who voted remain did so because they didn't really want change, didn't believe the lies and were slightly ashamed of some of the rhetoric from the right waving Union flags, but most of all liked their lives and were't going to be fooled in blaming the state of the economy on johnny foreigner.
Now......fast forward 2 years and a/ if the second vote happens, the "winners" will still all pretty much still vote the same way, but the losers will be out in twice the numbers, so Leave will lose by 2/1......and you'll be as close to a Civil War in Britain as you could ever imagine. or b/ if the Tories drive the bus over the cliff, then by the time the damage is undone to the UK economy, we'll all be pushing up daisys, as will our kids, their kids and probably their after them.
The solution? I hear Canada is quite a nice place to live...
Started well then fell apart in the second sentence when you presumed to know why people had voted leave. Here's my tenpennorth. If there is a second vote then only the people that voted leave should get a vote on whether they agree with the terms or not. Clearly there cannot be a vote on whether people agree with the terms when 48% have already said they wouldn't agree to any terms that mean we leave. On the other hand I would change my vote and choose stay. Nothing to do with any terms but because it has now been shown that we do not have any politicians of any colour that are capable of running a bath let alone a country.
tigertot wrote:Presumably they have no problem taking middle aged white people?
Yes..... And if you have a particular skillset they don't care about your creed, colour or age.
Britain is on a hiding to nothing now in terms of brexit and that bulldog spirit of 1939 doesn't exist anymore...... So it's either grin and bear it or draw a line under it..... But as others have said. A second vote won't be enough for some.......
JESUS WEPT HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.
There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them.
bren2k wrote:It's a fair point - but with such a close result and 'the people' being virtually split down the middle, that's quite an ask; no matter your position, half of your constituents will feel you're not representing their views. Not to mention that overwhelming evidence that has since emerged that the referendum result was secured through dishonesty and illegal practices. On that basis, I'm fairly relaxed about some MP's opposing Brexit - it could be argued that its the more democratic attitude.
And that's quite aside from the fact that there is no such thing as a good Brexit - let alone the land of milk and honey that various charlatans talked about 2 years ago.
I'd be quite happy to see the whole thing reset and a new vote held, based on the information that has since become available; it seems reasonable and entirely democratic to put the deal, or lack of, to the people, together with an option to remain, and ask them again.
It may be virtually split down the middle, there are MP’s with marginal seats should they have to stand for re-election, at what point does the majority carry? I’m too lazy (and at work) to look it up but wasn’t it over a Million?
I wish the MP’s spent as much time concentrating on getting us as good a deal as possible as they do moaning about it. We voted get on with it.
I may be missing things but I don’t think we are putting enough pressure on the European MP’s from within, I don’t see Manuel the Spanish tomato grower worrying about all the UK sales he’s going to lose if we don’t get a trade deal, as the UK is now in negotiations for a better trade agreement with say South Africa.
Bullseye wrote:Hard border in Ireland would mean a return to the troubles within months. That's a price to high to pay.
Agreed, as we are in negotiations what is the Irish Governments proposal?
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17146 Location: Olicana - Home of 'Vark Slayer
glow wrote:Correct, once ‘we’ voted to leave be that rightly or wrongly, and whether the MP’s agreed with it or not they were elected and have a duty to represent the people, they should be doing their upmost to assist in obtaining the best possible Brexit for the Britain. If for whatever reasons they feel they can’t do that then there are other careers available.
While you can argue that the people have spoken, even if it is for a disaster, I look forward to the next time a non-right wing Government is voted in & the right wing & Nazi supporting press, along with the Tory MPs, work their socks off to give unyielding support to the new Government of the day & the democratic wishes of the people.
“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.
glow wrote:Agreed, as we are in negotiations what is the Irish Governments proposal?
Give us back the 6 countries and we promise that all the protestants you brits put here under the plantation of ulster will retain their rights? And as I recall... The IRA weren't bombing Dublin and the Irish didn't vote brexit so basically its a problem that's British made and therefore needs a British solution. The EU don't need to negotiate but Britain does..... And quickly.
JESUS WEPT HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.
There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them.
tigertot wrote:While you can argue that the people have spoken, even if it is for a disaster, I look forward to the next time a non-right wing Government is voted in & the right wing & Nazi supporting press, along with the Tory MPs, work their socks off to give unyielding support to the new Government of the day & the democratic wishes of the people.
This wasn’t a normal election, to have a strong government it needs a strong opposition, unfortunately we have neither.
That said its surprising how many times whilst in opposition a party moans about a sitting Governments policy and then when said opposition gets elected doesn’t change those policies.
Call Me God wrote:Give us back the 6 countries and we promise that all the protestants you brits put here under the plantation of ulster will retain their rights? And as I recall... The IRA weren't bombing Dublin and the Irish didn't vote brexit so basically its a problem that's British made and therefore needs a British solution. The EU don't need to negotiate but Britain does..... And quickly.
So they’ve won’t be concerned if we’re no longer interested in buying German Car’s, Spanish fruit and Veg, French wine, Irish meat, etc? As we can get the same or equivalent from elsewhere.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17146 Location: Olicana - Home of 'Vark Slayer
glow wrote:So they’ve won’t be concerned if we’re no longer interested in buying German Car’s, Spanish fruit and Veg, French wine, Irish meat, etc? As we can get the same or equivalent from elsewhere.
We can get French wine from India?
“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.
glow wrote:So they’ve won’t be concerned if we’re no longer interested in buying German Car’s, Spanish fruit and Veg, French wine, Irish meat, etc? As we can get the same or equivalent from elsewhere.
Concerned maybe but they are the #1 trading bloc on the planet and have far greater bargaining power than a single country. It can take up to a decade to negotiate a trade deal with a friendly country..... Much longer if you want favourable terms..... The moment a hard brexit happens UK products get hit with major tarrifs whilst arseholes will Always buy BMWs regardless of the cost.....and as for Spanish fruit...... Where else are you going to get it from?
Edit. On the simplistic idea of taxing German car companies..... Did anyone see the Donald trump v BMW on John Oliver? Trump at a rally said was going to tax BMW...... The rally was 100km away from the largest BMW plant in the world employing 10,000 Americans..... Simplistic politics got you to vote leave...... Real politics is giving you the butt hurt
JESUS WEPT HOW MANY TIMES????? £20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000. The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.
There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them.
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HOW MANY TIMES?????
