That's the key factor and a good marker for how far we'd good down the line of having charlatans in power. He didn't have a clue, most of those around him didn't either. They just thought everything was going to be carry on as you were. This referendum was always going to be about people throwing a spanner in the works and answering the wrong question. Cameron thought he was just going to shout jump and the country would reply "certainly, Dave. How high?" He wasn't really banking on a reply of "no, you effing jump".

Just heard a new description, new to me anyway. BINO— which equates to brexit in name only.

more like BEANO at times... caetoon characters on all sides (Westminster and the Channel!)

It's been a thing for quite a while now.

So, as we are now "definitely" leaving the customs union, will there be the new free trade area that Mrs May has been dreaming about or is it just that, a dream, similar to the friction-less border between the 2 halves of Ireland ?

I think we'll stay in the customs union in the end since it's the only way to ensure Ireland doesn't explode again.

Very unlikely I think - the Ireland thing is red herring no need to have a border - plenty of goods travel across borders with a need for a permanent fixed border - electronic clearance simple.

Hmm I hope you're right. Similar IT used on other borders like the Swiss border doesn't have anywhere near the same amount of traffic and crossing points and those countries are within the customs union IIRC. We aren't. Unless the Irish and EU are persuaded it will work then it's no go. Then what? You can't just fudge this stuff.

Also many farms straddle the border in N Ireland. Will their livestock be fitted with devices to record when they cross

I also have experience of IT "solutions" that are rushed in. They never work.

Any kind of border that involves any physical checks whatsoever won't be acceptable.

If it was that simple, "we" would have moved on from the issue and be talking about tariffs (or the lack of them).
On another point, does anyone think this government is able to actually control immigration ?
The "windrush" issue seems to have exposed a level of incompetence at the home office that is just utterly shambolic.
Over zealous big wigs actually deporting people that have every right to be here, with responsibility fro the fiasco, leading right back to No 10 Downing Street.
You have to say that Amber Rudd is being unbelievably loyal to her boss, when, despite not seeming to know what the hell her department is doing, is trying to create a "gap" between the office she inherited from Mrs May and the mess that she is, for now, having to sort out.

No border checks also means no checks on who is driving over the border as well as what's in the back of the truck/van/car.