Sebasteeno wrote:Knockers your clueless - Talanoa is a very good and established SL player - Rawsthorne was just that Raw! Hes been given a chance to impress both with the club and on loan and whilst not been awful hasnt impressed either. Plus he wants to play which he isnt gonna do here. Right decision by both the club and player
We've let pretty much every back go or not get a chance from the academy since 2014 onwards thus stunting any opportunity for them to progress. Funny how the likes of Wigan can shove a kid in on the wing and they adapted pretty bloody quickly. Lancaster was tried at the back end of a failed season and was fantastic, Logan too and both effectively discarded/left out in the cold, not to mention Crooks who was destroyed when it was others who were failing the team. Upcoming halfbacks let go or scapegoated like Miller who despite his critics we had a better win ratio with him in the team in 2014 than with him left out (& the same for Crooks too). Talanoa is a reasonable std SL player but he doesn't set the world alight and never has done, he's short on pace and guile and is too often fragile and occasionally shockingly poor in defence particularly under a high ball. Yes he has good go forward/takes the ball up strongly from the 20 (when he puts his thinking cap on) but then which wingers don't do that, which wingers in SL of any age have not taken the ball up with gusto and made a dent?
Last year albeit with fewer appearances he was massively down on clean breaks and tackle busts and his metres made. Steve Michaels outshone him in attack and is a far better defender, Rawesthorne's stats albeit based on a few games also were better than Talanoa's whom I thought had a very average season, add into which Rawesthorne can kick goals too and had room for improvement. I understand why he's left, he doesn't want to hang around and stagnate because he'd never get a chance since we signed Griffin, resigned Talanoa plus adding Faraimo too, then you have Logan fighting for the scraps IF CT or Connor get injured/lose form.
Grant you Talanoa is not an expensive option but he wouldn't get anywhere near any of the top sides as a winger and he stunts the growth of other young players whom could offer just as much now if not more in attack and certainly no less in defence because Talanoa makes the same errors he's always done.
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29802 Location: West Yorkshire
I think it's harsh to say Ben Crooks was "destroyed". He went to Aus, failed to secure a contract extension at Cas under Daryl Powell and now plays in the championship. Maybe Radford just recognised his limitations at SL level quicker than everyone else through observing him on a daily basis.
Joined: Mar 14 2003 Posts: 25863 Location: Back in Hull.
knockersbumpMKII wrote:We've let pretty much every back go or not get a chance from the academy since 2014 onwards thus stunting any opportunity for them to progress. Funny how the likes of Wigan can shove a kid in on the wing and they adapted pretty bloody quickly. Lancaster was tried at the back end of a failed season and was fantastic, Logan too and both effectively discarded/left out in the cold, not to mention Crooks who was destroyed when it was others who were failing the team. Upcoming halfbacks let go or scapegoated like Miller who despite his critics we had a better win ratio with him in the team in 2014 than with him left out (& the same for Crooks too). Talanoa is a reasonable std SL player but he doesn't set the world alight and never has done, he's short on pace and guile and is too often fragile and occasionally shockingly poor in defence particularly under a high ball. Yes he has good go forward/takes the ball up strongly from the 20 (when he puts his thinking cap on) but then which wingers don't do that, which wingers in SL of any age have not taken the ball up with gusto and made a dent?
Last year albeit with fewer appearances he was massively down on clean breaks and tackle busts and his metres made. Steve Michaels outshone him in attack and is a far better defender, Rawesthorne's stats albeit based on a few games also were better than Talanoa's whom I thought had a very average season, add into which Rawesthorne can kick goals too and had room for improvement. I understand why he's left, he doesn't want to hang around and stagnate because he'd never get a chance since we signed Griffin, resigned Talanoa plus adding Faraimo too, then you have Logan fighting for the scraps IF CT or Connor get injured/lose form.
Grant you Talanoa is not an expensive option but he wouldn't get anywhere near any of the top sides as a winger and he stunts the growth of other young players whom could offer just as much now if not more in attack and certainly no less in defence because Talanoa makes the same errors he's always done.
Once again proves you either don't go to games or doesn't understands rugby if you think Michaels was better than Talanoa in defence and attack, Michaels defence was poor last season, came off his wing for too often. Luckily our coaching staff who know more about the game than both of us agree with me.
You go on about these youngsters, but thete isn't one I'd take back, players like Crooks, Lancaster are playing either championship or lower grade RU.
Miller is possible the exception, but that was Gentles fault, signing him to play the wrong role, he is a good running 6.
Joined: Nov 23 2009 Posts: 12751 Location: The Hamptons of East Yorkshire
Dave K. wrote:Once again proves you either don't go to games or doesn't understands rugby if you think Michaels was better than Talanoa in defence and attack, Michaels defence was poor last season, came off his wing for too often. Luckily our coaching staff who know more about the game than both of us agree with me.
You go on about these youngsters, but thete isn't one I'd take back, players like Crooks, Lancaster are playing either championship or lower grade RU.
Miller is possible the exception, but that was Gentles fault, signing him to play the wrong role, he is a good running 6.
Does it have to be one or the other or can I suggest both?
Joined: Aug 31 2005 Posts: 8546 Location: Location Location
I really liked the look of Rawsthorne but probably the right decision for him, would have preferred a loan mind you as I think Talanoa may only have 1/2 seasons left
Dave K. wrote:Once again proves you either don't go to games or doesn't understands rugby if you think Michaels was better than Talanoa in defence and attack, Michaels defence was poor last season, came off his wing for too often. Luckily our coaching staff who know more about the game than both of us agree with me.
You go on about these youngsters, but thete isn't one I'd take back, players like Crooks, Lancaster are playing either championship or lower grade RU.
Miller is possible the exception, but that was Gentles fault, signing him to play the wrong role, he is a good running 6.
Same old 'don't go to games' ad hominen attack, it's getting boring.
But the problem is we haven't developed a back in years before binning them off in quick fashion, maybe you don't understand rugby as much as you think as you seem to think signing players outside of the club is the way to go instead of giving youngsters a shot? Or will you concede that our youth system under Radford has been poop since he took over. Still waiting for a player to come through since making a debut under his tenure to make the first XVII. Which is it?
Joined: Mar 14 2003 Posts: 25863 Location: Back in Hull.
knockersbumpMKII wrote:Same old 'don't go to games' ad hominen attack, it's getting boring.
But the problem is we haven't developed a back in years before binning them off in quick fashion, maybe you don't understand rugby as much as you think as you seem to think signing players outside of the club is the way to go instead of giving youngsters a shot? Or will you concede that our youth system under Radford has been poop since he took over. Still waiting for a player to come through since making a debut under his tenure to make the first XVII. Which is it?
Your constant slagging off of Radford and never saying anything positve about our club is boring.
When I have ever said that the way to go is signing players instead of playing youngsters is the way forward,as usual you are making things up.
I'm all for youth, I'd love Abdul to get a good run this year, but they have to be ready and those players like Crooks, lancaster, Dean werent good enough.
Our youth policy was set back by the Hetherington's, so it was always going to take time, Gentle wasn't great either, he wanted to sell Shaul and didn't want to play Lineham but instead play and sign overseas players, luckily Radford stepped in.
I would put Radford and the current coaching staff down to developing a host of players such as Shaul, Abdul, Logan, Bowden, Hadley, Fash and Turgut, they may not have debuted or even play regularly, but he is doing an amazing job in bringing them through when they are ready.
I honestly think that you think you know more about coaching that Radford, have you either coached Rugby before, or even any sport.
I'd be amazed if you respond as you have the habit of ignoring posts or points when you have no answer.
If I haven't seen you nonsense ramblings on facebook, Tony I would think you were either a wind up merchant or a Rovers fan, although I think you could still be the last one.
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12656 Location: Leicestershire.
knockersbumpMKII wrote:Same old 'don't go to games' ad hominen attack, it's getting boring.
But the problem is we haven't developed a back in years before binning them off in quick fashion, maybe you don't understand rugby as much as you think as you seem to think signing players outside of the club is the way to go instead of giving youngsters a shot? Or will you concede that our youth system under Radford has been poop since he took over. Still waiting for a player to come through since making a debut under his tenure to make the first XVII. Which is it?
Radford's approach, however you want to characterise it, has won back-to-back challenge cups and got you pretty close to two Grand Final appearances. That doesn't make him or it perfect, but if it is a choice between signing another Mahe Fonua and giving the next Callum Lancaster a chance to develop in the first team, then I very much hope you focus on giving youth a chance.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29802 Location: West Yorkshire
Mild Rover wrote:Radford's approach, however you want to characterise it, has won back-to-back challenge cups and got you pretty close to two Grand Final appearances. That doesn't make him or it perfect, but if it is a choice between signing another Mahe Fonua and giving the next Callum Lancaster a chance to develop in the first team, then I very much hope you focus on giving youth a chance.
Well, exactly. If we had a long list of young players that Radford had binned off who'd gone on to Grand Final success at Leeds or become regulars at Wigan or Saints that would be one thing. The fact is that Ben Crooks is now playing in the championship, HTW's at Hunslet I think, Lancaster's in union? Meanwhile Fash played 20 games for FC last year, Turgut 18. Jake Connor's emergence has pushed others down the pecking order but in reality has strengthened the squad at centre and half back so surely a good thing for the club?
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