with ALL the clowns in politics nowadays, we can sell Wesminter for flats and build a 3 ring circus on wasteland somwhere, the moon looks a good option!
King Street Cat wrote:And the circus rolls on... You couldn't make it up, could you?!
with ALL the clowns in politics nowadays, we can sell Wesminter for flats and build a 3 ring circus on wasteland somwhere, the moon looks a good option!
Joined: Jan 30 2005 Posts: 7152 Location: one day closer to death
wrencat1873 wrote:Ditto, you didn't but, the poster that I replied to, which provoked you to jump right onto your high horse did. Perhaps you should start again
wrencat1873 wrote:Ditto, you didn't but, the poster that I replied to, which provoked you to jump right onto your high horse did. Perhaps you should start again
There's a certain irony in one-trick Farage stating; “What is for certain is that the Cleggs, the Blairs, the Adonises will never, ever-ever give up. They will go on whinging and whining and moaning all the way through this process".
King Street Cat wrote:And the circus rolls on... You couldn't make it up, could you?!
There's a certain irony in one-trick Farage stating; “What is for certain is that the Cleggs, the Blairs, the Adonises will never, ever-ever give up. They will go on whinging and whining and moaning all the way through this process".
“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.
wrencat1873 wrote: Are you saying that the figures showing that immigrants from Eastern Europe are net contributors to the economy are wrong ?
What the hell has that got to do with the demand immigrants place on the NHS? Does their highly debatable net contribution increase the number of beds to account for their numbers? Oh they might pay in, but unless the NHS is operationally able to immediately absorb the impact their numbers bring, it's largely irrelevant.
As for non-EU immigrants, that's another story on a different scale entirely - a negative impact of £118 billion 1995-2011 as even the Indy acknowledges.
Fact is, every government has closed facilities and reduced the number of beds due to the NHS being an massively unwieldy beast. Labour reduced beds by around 52k during their last tenure. Since the 2010 GE beds have dropped by around 14k.
It would be more accurate to say that any increases in NHS spending have not kept up with the growing population, which is nothing like the picture that you are trying to paint. The % increases in spending dont take into account any increase in population...
And how is spending supposed to keep up if you have no idea how how much your population might increase by in any given year?
NHS spending has risen and risen year on year to try and keep pace with a growing and aging population, and the increasing costs of healthcare and wages. That, and that closure of too many facilities alongside institutionalised legacy inefficiencies have taken their toll.
Fact is, we have an increasingly aging population together with population growth boosted by immigration. The UK population grew by 513,000 in 2016, of which 335,000 was net migration - so don't try to tell me immigration isn't a factor in the NHS overload (and housing, and other public services). It absolutely is, and 20 years of the idiot liberal left vilifying anyone who dare say otherwise was a big factor in Brexit, and the rise of UKIP and 'populist' tendencies.
I am friends with 2 x midwives, a hospital theatre manager and a couple of nurses - and in private all of them bemoan the impact and strain immigration places on their services (the midwives in particular!). But if they opened their mouths in public they'd be sacked. The liberals in charge don't stand for that sort of thing.
...and again, if you believe our unemployment figures, at the lowest for decades, then someones sums dont add up, unless all of the "new" employment is on minimum wage or zero hours contracts
What's that you say? The bottom end of the jobs market is trashed? Low cost labour is being taken advantage of? Wonder what might have influenced that...
wrencat1873 wrote: Are you saying that the figures showing that immigrants from Eastern Europe are net contributors to the economy are wrong ?
What the hell has that got to do with the demand immigrants place on the NHS? Does their highly debatable net contribution increase the number of beds to account for their numbers? Oh they might pay in, but unless the NHS is operationally able to immediately absorb the impact their numbers bring, it's largely irrelevant.
As for non-EU immigrants, that's another story on a different scale entirely - a negative impact of £118 billion 1995-2011 as even the Indy acknowledges.
Fact is, every government has closed facilities and reduced the number of beds due to the NHS being an massively unwieldy beast. Labour reduced beds by around 52k during their last tenure. Since the 2010 GE beds have dropped by around 14k.
It would be more accurate to say that any increases in NHS spending have not kept up with the growing population, which is nothing like the picture that you are trying to paint. The % increases in spending dont take into account any increase in population...
And how is spending supposed to keep up if you have no idea how how much your population might increase by in any given year?
NHS spending has risen and risen year on year to try and keep pace with a growing and aging population, and the increasing costs of healthcare and wages. That, and that closure of too many facilities alongside institutionalised legacy inefficiencies have taken their toll.
Fact is, we have an increasingly aging population together with population growth boosted by immigration. The UK population grew by 513,000 in 2016, of which 335,000 was net migration - so don't try to tell me immigration isn't a factor in the NHS overload (and housing, and other public services). It absolutely is, and 20 years of the idiot liberal left vilifying anyone who dare say otherwise was a big factor in Brexit, and the rise of UKIP and 'populist' tendencies.
I am friends with 2 x midwives, a hospital theatre manager and a couple of nurses - and in private all of them bemoan the impact and strain immigration places on their services (the midwives in particular!). But if they opened their mouths in public they'd be sacked. The liberals in charge don't stand for that sort of thing.
...and again, if you believe our unemployment figures, at the lowest for decades, then someones sums dont add up, unless all of the "new" employment is on minimum wage or zero hours contracts
What's that you say? The bottom end of the jobs market is trashed? Low cost labour is being taken advantage of? Wonder what might have influenced that...
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Cronus wrote:Yes, we could have put temporary transitional controls on EU migration in 2004 - but a Mr Anthony Charles Lynton Blair chose not to, for political and ideological reasons. The thing is, you don't get a second opportunity whenever you feel like it so saying we could still have limited immigration is incorrect - something backed up by the EU itself, who have repeatedly stated freedom of movement is entirely non-negotiable. One of the reasons I voted leave.
Freedom of movement does not give anyone the right to remain here if they are a burden on the State. You have not been able to pitch up here and remain be a burden on the state since 2006 when The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 came into force in UK law. That basically says you either have a job or can prove you won't be a burden by having things like your own comprehensive health insurance. EU migrants also can't claim unemployment benefit for three months and if they don't have a job after six months they can be deported. Other EU countries limit full access to benefits until after you have paid into the system for a number of years (five in Germany). In Germany there was a case where someone had lived there for 3 years supporting themselves but then tried to claim child support on the birth of their first child but was denied it by the ECJ because they had never worked so never paid into the system. So unless you simply don't like foreigners your concerns over Freedom of Movement were ill founded and no basis for a vote to leave.
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
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