Yes I think Burgess must have taken up about half of the cap! He lost Ben Te'o, Luke Keary, Loti Tuqiri, Dylan Walker and Isaac Luke (who didn't play in the GF). Most coaches have to deal with losing players when they become successful, because players demand higher salaries, it's a fact of sporting life. Melbourne, the Roosters, Brisbane and the Cowboys seem to be able to cope, not so Madge at the Rabbitohs, whose form has dropped off a cliff over the past three seasons.

The drinking culture in the NRL is probably worse than it is in Super League, Laurie Daly lost his job as NSW coach because of it. I don't see Madge changing that at Wigan, he wasn't able to at the Rabbitohs.

I do agree with you and other posters about drinking though. For the life of me I can't understand why it isn't stamped out. One of the first things Alex Ferguson did at Man Utd was sell Norman Whiteside and Paul McGrath, both great players, but the leaders of the drinking culture. I too, am sceptical about Shaun Wane being a strong enough coach to actually take that on. After the Bateman incident last season, I would have thought that it was a massive warning for the whole club. Maybe it's not as simple as we think but something should be done.

I would welcome any coach who really made his mark on team discipline as a whole. I think this season we have become a nightmare for referees. Mouthy, petulant, constantly stretching the rules. Players who are more concerned with winding the opposition up than actually concentrating on their own performance.

As I have said, I think Wane deserves one more shot at putting things right. But whether he is strong enough to change the team culture I don't know. For me The Tomkins brothers, Leuluai, McIlorum, Sutton, Nuuausala and probably Gelling need to go.

This I would totally agree with. Petulant is a word I have used many times this season.

I've been a supporter of Wane however his time has come imo. Although injuries have certainly played a significant part in disrupting the season I'm not sure how much better we would have been without them.

One thing that's nags at me is the performances in the first 4 or 5 weeks which were superb before the injuries kicked in. That makes me doubt my thoughts on Wane. The other thing we don't know and never will is how many were playing injured just because we needed bodies on the field and how that would have affected them.

I believe Leneghan will give Wane another season. I really hope he manages to get away from the niggle and sort out the discipline.

As for the players I don't believe we need wholesale changes as we have a pretty good squad, I think we need a change of tactics, to start using props properly and a general at #7.

If nothing else, we have to fix this.

At present, the team is getting no service from its halfbacks. Tommy is going through the motions and George is (mostly) a headless chicken.

TL is poor I agree, his kicking game is almost as bad as Matty Smith’s and lacks any sort of direction. HOWEVER they both play behind a thoroughly beaten pack nearly every week. The only occasion I can recall recently is Salford when our pack actually turned up and ran up some good numbers and Williams looked class, TL above average.

Smith's kicking game was far better.

I agree with what you are saying, although after watching Tommy's performances for NW I was in favour of him coming back for me TL and GW don't complement each other. We need a half with a good long kicking game as neither have. That said without a change in tactics regarding the use of our forwards it's probably pointless.

Standard excuse attempt by many to re write history.

Matty Smith kicking game is far superior to TL and Matty Smith was no world beater very often. But on his day his kicking cold be exceptional.

Smith might be a bench player for Saints but TL would not get a game.

You have to wonder what was going through the managements minds when they signed two players St Helens had originally been looking at in Nuuausala and Leuluai. If there was ever a club (in recent history) not to jump over the top of for transfer targets it's been St Helens. Their recruitment has been a disaster for a number of years.

I totally disagree. Smith's kicking game was no better than average. His kicks were straight down the full back or wingers throats most of the time or went straight dead in goal. He had the odd good game with the boot which masked his inept performances in other facets of the game. Tommy is a far better rugby player than Smith could ever dream of being but his kicking game isn't much worse than Smiths.

Its due to Burgess turning up after pre season so it severly hampered the season, like Leeds last year.