DaveO wrote:As I have said in other posts I think the recruitment of former players was a mistake IMO driven partly out of a desire to prove what IL said about his policy of letting players leave if we had first refusal worked. The club has to my eyes not looked beyond these players when recruiting.
I would hope it would. He transformed an underperforming squad when he came over last time so I'd hope he do the same again. I am not sure where the tag of him being as boring as Wane comes from mentioned by others. I don't recall our GF and CC wins under him as boring.
If you recall we only beat Leeds by a disputed Leuluai try and were hanging on against a team we were heavy favourites to beat, so the Challenge Cup victory was nice but definitely not a victory for any type of special rugby (Joel Tomkins' try aside). Madge should be able to improve the team but he would need to be ruthless with certain individuals. He certainly did nothing to bring through any of our younger players last time he was here. You've got to give Wane credit for that at least.
As I said I'm happy for Madge to return. I don't think he's the Messiah though.
The idea that Madge will not improve our style has come from watching the Rabbitohs on Premier TV since they won their GF. If you haven't watched them I understand your view, but your ideas are five years out of date.
"Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try No hell below us, above us only pie"(John Ono Lennon born Wigan 1940)
Aboveusonlypie wrote:If you recall we only beat Leeds by a disputed Leuluai try and were hanging on against a team we were heavy favourites to beat, so the Challenge Cup victory was nice but definitely not a victory for any type of special rugby (Joel Tomkins' try aside). Madge should be able to improve the team but he would need to be ruthless with certain individuals. He certainly did nothing to bring through any of our younger players last time he was here. You've got to give Wane credit for that at least.
As I said I'm happy for Madge to return. I don't think he's the Messiah though.
The idea that Madge will not improve our style has come from watching the Rabbitohs on Premier TV since they won their GF. If you haven't watched them I understand your view, but your ideas are five years out of date.
Yep, plus Charnley, Mossop and Tuson. McIlorum also became a starter under Maguire. Not bad for two seasons really.
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The_Enforcer wrote:Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.
Joined: Oct 22 2003 Posts: 1840 Location: A long way from Wigan
We played our most attractive rugby under Wane in the two years after Madge left.
Since we lost Deacon and Harris as coaches our attack has steadily declined.
In MM's last season the wheels had startedto come off at the end on the season IMO.
If he returns i think he will make us harder to beat but will do nothing for improving the entertainment or likeability factor - quite the opposite i think.
If we are to change coach, and i think every team needs to freshen up it's coaxhing otherwise it gets stale then MM is the wrong option.
Fergie showed how to stay at one club by getting in the best young coaches, and changing them. We stopped doing that after Harris , and it shows.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Aboveusonlypie wrote:If you recall we only beat Leeds by a disputed Leuluai try and were hanging on against a team we were heavy favourites to beat, so the Challenge Cup victory was nice but definitely not a victory for any type of special rugby (Joel Tomkins' try aside). Madge should be able to improve the team but he would need to be ruthless with certain individuals. He certainly did nothing to bring through any of our younger players last time he was here. You've got to give Wane credit for that at least.
As I said I'm happy for Madge to return. I don't think he's the Messiah though.
The idea that Madge will not improve our style has come from watching the Rabbitohs on Premier TV since they won their GF. If you haven't watched them I understand your view, but your ideas are five years out of date.
He lost a shed load of top class players when they got Burgess back so he wasn't exactly dealt a good hand but even if he came back here and turned the clock back and had the team playing exactly as they were before in 2010 I still think we'd be better and more entertaining to watch for two reasons. He would as you suggest be ruthless (or as ruthless as contracts let him be) but most importantly whatever tactics and system he implemented he would ensure the players understood it and were fit enough to carry it out. I don't think the players have much of a clue what is intended under Wane and the number injuries the squad picks up non-contact related such as calf strains etc means we are constantly seeing players unfit.
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
DaveO wrote:He lost a shed load of top class players when they got Burgess back so he wasn't exactly dealt a good hand but even if he came back here and turned the clock back and had the team playing exactly as they were before in 2010 I still think we'd be better and more entertaining to watch for two reasons. He would as you suggest be ruthless (or as ruthless as contracts let him be) but most importantly whatever tactics and system he implemented he would ensure the players understood it and were fit enough to carry it out. I don't think the players have much of a clue what is intended under Wane and the number injuries the squad picks up non-contact related such as calf strains etc means we are constantly seeing players unfit.
The fitness is a big concern for me.
I hear a lot about Wigan players going out on the lash in 2017 ... it may be impossible to prevent that, and I'm aware (if bewildered) that some fans don't mind this at all, considering it some kind of human right (to which I can only respond how many Olympic athletes demand this right?). But certain players, and Sutton is the best example I can think of, look overweight to me (Note, I'm not accusing him personally of having a drink problem, just saying that he's looked out of shape).
I'm not sure that SW is the strict disciplinarian many think. When he was Madge's assistant, the rumour was that, of the two of them, he was the good cop.
Perhaps it's time for a bad cop to really start cracking the whip. Maguire may not be able to clamp down hard enough on a drinking culture to please me, but I'm damn sure he could enforce other measures that would ensure these men are lean and mean.
That said, I'd worry about bringing back a guy who left us seemingly at the drop of a hat during his last tenure. Undecided about this one.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Cruncher wrote:The fitness is a big concern for me.
I hear a lot about Wigan players going out on the lash in 2017 ... it may be impossible to prevent that, and I'm aware (if bewildered) that some fans don't mind this at all, considering it some kind of human right (to which I can only respond how many Olympic athletes demand this right?). But certain players, and Sutton is the best example I can think of, look overweight to me (Note, I'm not accusing him personally of having a drink problem, just saying that he's looked out of shape).
I'm not sure that SW is the strict disciplinarian many think. When he was Madge's assistant, the rumour was that, of the two of them, he was the good cop.
Perhaps it's time for a bad cop to really start cracking the whip. Maguire may not be able to clamp down hard enough on a drinking culture to please me, but I'm damn sure he could enforce other measures that would ensure these men are lean and mean.
I have never understood the defence of the drinking culture either. It's not been a semi-pro sport for years now and while people used to marvel at Gary Connelly's capacity for beer and his ability to still play there were other players even in that era who didn't drink at least during the season. It's just a lack of professionalism to go and get ratted regularly when you are supposed to be a full time athlete. I thought I read somewhere not so long ago when Wigan were on about the sports science they employ they were going on about monitoring individual players with things like blood tests and diets for each individual and so on. If half the rumours about how much alcohol some of them consume are true they are probably of the scales of the equipment.
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
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