Brexit moron in chief David Davis certainly did ok out of it.

If he's been put in charge to stonewall the Europeans, he's doing a fine job.

It was also a joy to see May arranging a post brexit deal with the Japanese, surprisingly similar to the arrangement they've already sorted with the E.U.

Careful now, you're naively in danger of believing the BBC & Channel 4, in that the Brits are a shambles and the noble Germanics of the EU don't play negotiating games.

Whereas in fact the typical stalemate of an inflexible 27-country quagmire vs 1 country rears its head again. Unsubstantiated and unreasonable EU 'exit bill' demands certainly don't help.


I believe that was entirely the intention.

I don't give two hoots what any news channel tries to feed me, same as I give no credence to you stating "facts".

Prior to the election the Tories were hell bent on a "hard" brexit, then after they received a bloody nose their stance appeared to soften. But it now appears to me that, in order to achieve their original objective Davis & his acolytes have no intention of negotiating & hey presto their original aim is achieved.



What, to broker a deal similar to what we'd have got anyway?

The Devil's Advocate wrote:I don't give two hoots what any news channel tries to feed me, same as I give no credence to you stating "facts". Of course, you get your information from...where exactly? Quote:Prior to the election the Tories were hell bent on a "hard" brexit, then after they received a bloody nose their stance appeared to soften. But it now appears to me that, in order to achieve their original objective Davis & his acolytes have no intention of negotiating & hey presto their original aim is achieved. Firstly, using the term 'hard Brexit' demonstrates that despite your statement above, you've soaked up plenty from the news channels. There is no 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit - there is only whatever the final agreement turns out to be. Fact is, we're leaving the EU, which means leaving the Customs Union and Single Market, despite the hot air still belching forth from certain idiotic politicians. Davis 'has no intention of negotiating'? Do you really believe that rubbish? Barnier was always going to talk the UK position down - he's been given an inflexible mandate and is trying to strengthen his position. He may not like the UK's opening position but that's how negotiations go. You'd rather the UK rolled over and gave in to their every demand? You must be a Corbyn supporter. Quote:What, to broker a deal similar to what we'd have got anyway? Well, yes.

The Devil's Advocate wrote:I don't give two hoots what any news channel tries to feed me, same as I give no credence to you stating "facts". Of course, you get your information from...where exactly? Quote:Prior to the election the Tories were hell bent on a "hard" brexit, then after they received a bloody nose their stance appeared to soften. But it now appears to me that, in order to achieve their original objective Davis & his acolytes have no intention of negotiating & hey presto their original aim is achieved. Firstly, using the term 'hard Brexit' demonstrates that despite your statement above, you've soaked up plenty from the news channels. There is no 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit - there is only whatever the final agreement turns out to be. Fact is, we're leaving the EU, which means leaving the Customs Union and Single Market, despite the hot air still belching forth from certain idiotic politicians. Davis 'has no intention of negotiating'? Do you really believe that rubbish? Barnier was always going to talk the UK position down - he's been given an inflexible mandate and is trying to strengthen his position. He may not like the UK's opening position but that's how negotiations go. You'd rather the UK rolled over and gave in to their every demand? You must be a Corbyn supporter. Quote:What, to broker a deal similar to what we'd have got anyway? Well, yes.

Cronus wrote:Of course, you get your information from...where exactly? Firstly, using the term 'hard Brexit' demonstrates that despite your statement above, you've soaked up plenty from the news channels. There is no 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit - there is only whatever the final agreement turns out to be. Fact is, we're leaving the EU, which means leaving the Customs Union and Single Market, despite the hot air still belching forth from certain idiotic politicians. Davis 'has no intention of negotiating'? Do you really believe that rubbish? Barnier was always going to talk the UK position down - he's been given an inflexible mandate and is trying to strengthen his position. He may not like the UK's opening position but that's how negotiations go. You'd rather the UK rolled over and gave in to their every demand? You must be a Corbyn supporter. Well, yes. And how do you think our negotiations are progressing ? It still looks like time is advancing far quicker than the negotiations, especially with the EU27 not willing to budge until our "divorce" settlement figure is agreed, which the UK is trying desperately to leave until later. It's all a long way from the "leave" campaigns rhetoric and it still seems clear that we will have some additional costs on our exports to the EU, which, although this is a 2 way street and there may well be tariffs in the opposite direction, it still seems somewhat different to the "plan" (assuming that there ever was a plan). Whilst we may be able to achieve some cheaper imports from outside the EU, assuming that we can negotiate trade agreements with the likes of India and China, the major issue is where we plan to sell the products that we produce. Our largest and closest market is always going to be the EU and even if we could reduce some of our costs on certain products they sure as hell wont allow the UK to "dump" cheap goods in the Eurozone.

Cronus wrote:Of course, you get your information from...where exactly? Firstly, using the term 'hard Brexit' demonstrates that despite your statement above, you've soaked up plenty from the news channels. There is no 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit - there is only whatever the final agreement turns out to be. Fact is, we're leaving the EU, which means leaving the Customs Union and Single Market, despite the hot air still belching forth from certain idiotic politicians. Davis 'has no intention of negotiating'? Do you really believe that rubbish? Barnier was always going to talk the UK position down - he's been given an inflexible mandate and is trying to strengthen his position. He may not like the UK's opening position but that's how negotiations go. You'd rather the UK rolled over and gave in to their every demand? You must be a Corbyn supporter. Well, yes. And how do you think our negotiations are progressing ? It still looks like time is advancing far quicker than the negotiations, especially with the EU27 not willing to budge until our "divorce" settlement figure is agreed, which the UK is trying desperately to leave until later. It's all a long way from the "leave" campaigns rhetoric and it still seems clear that we will have some additional costs on our exports to the EU, which, although this is a 2 way street and there may well be tariffs in the opposite direction, it still seems somewhat different to the "plan" (assuming that there ever was a plan). Whilst we may be able to achieve some cheaper imports from outside the EU, assuming that we can negotiate trade agreements with the likes of India and China, the major issue is where we plan to sell the products that we produce. Our largest and closest market is always going to be the EU and even if we could reduce some of our costs on certain products they sure as hell wont allow the UK to "dump" cheap goods in the Eurozone.

The main battles have not started yet, so expect the political temperature to rise in the coming months. What's depressing is some of the bbc and left wing journalists taking the side of barnier and his cohorts. They plainly want to see us fail so they can gleefully point out they were right. Never mind that the damage that may occur to this country. As for the Labour Party it's veiws change on a day to day basis. So not much chance of support from them, the main purpose of corbyn is to bring down the government by any means possible. If that means destroying the country so be it. So far Davis has conducted negotiations in a fit and proper manner. When confronted with the demand of billions he has asked for a cost breakdown something barnier seems reluctant to provide. Also the demands totals seem to change on a day to day basis.
Unfortunately both main political parties are deeply divided on the main issues. I note that some on the Labour Party are indicating that we can stay in the customs union. This if we keep up with our annual payment. Stuff and nonsense the Americans sell millions to the ecc without paying tarrifs or any other fees. Why should we be expected to pay.

Could you please explain to me why tarrifs should be invoked. Clearly it's in everybody's best interest to trade freely especially so from the ecc side, seeing as they sell more to us than we sell to them.

Not from Tory H.Q.



There you go stating facts again, with a caveat that politicians with a differing view to you are idiots.



Inflexible mandate, whereas Davis's is so elastic isn't it?

As with pretty much all other nations, the EU will wish to "protect is member nations".
Just about everything coming into the EU currently attracts a tariff and that isn't going to change anytime soon and just because the UK were former members wont give them an exclusive arrangement.
There is just no way that we will be allowed to trade freely with the EU from outside, that would be "having our cake and eating it" and with all the noises coming out at the moment, we are more likely to leave with a bloody nose than get off scot free.
What message would it send out if any member could leave without penalty ??