Joined: Nov 23 2009 Posts: 12749 Location: The Hamptons of East Yorkshire
To be fair Maggie died in a November. Far superior for doing baked spuds in the bonfire at the bottom of the garden. We had cheese and beans to accompany them, with heaps of cheap red wine. It was a smashing party.
Cronus wrote::lol: I think you mean turn to politics because the armed struggle failed completely.
Nothing he did in his later years could ever forgive what went before. Evil, disgusting man. Some of the acts he participated in and sanctioned beggar belief. Anyone else would have been banged up for life or bumped off. Good riddance. Hopefully his Satan is having some fun with his nether regions right now.
"Ding dong the murderer is dead"
Talk about a simplistic view. I can understand why some British people may despise McGuiness, especially after decades or one sided media, but certainly without him there would also have been no ceasefire, GFA and subsequent peace in Northern Ireland. That is without doubt. He had the authority and respect to achieve this and managed to bring enough people and the IRA onside. He is still despised by many hard-line Republicans for doing so and is seen as a sell-out. Certainly a more moderate politician, someone like John Hulme, would never have been able to achieve what McGuiness has. I do find it funny though how people can so readily despise McGuiness but then will not understand why so many around the world despise people like Maggie Thatcher or the British Army.
McGuiness took the path he did because of the conditions that existed in Northern Ireland for Catholics at that time in Northern Ireland. This provided the support for the ‘armed struggle’ that you refer to and many others took the same path and\or supported those that did as they felt they had no choice. Catholics lived in squalor, were denied homes with even large families not getting homes before small Protestant families, were being burned out of their homes and they couldn't get jobs. They were discriminated against in every facet of life. For years they had tried peaceful Civil Rights movements and protests and these often resulted in attacks on them and even murder with events like Bloody Sunday. Gerrymandering meant that a democratic route did not exist with even areas that had overwhelming Catholic majorities seeing Catholic councillors being vastly outnumbered by Unionist councillors. State collusion meant that Loyalist murder gangs could kill at will, and the activities of the RUC, B Specials and Army well documented with more and more of this is being revealed on an almost weekly basis. With all this going on many Catholics felt they had no choice and there was simply no other avenue as they had no one else to look after them. It was this environment, and the inaction of the Official IRA, that led to the PIRA even coming into existence and having the support to do so. It is also what led to normal people like McGuiness joining.
Have Catholics got a better deal now than before the troubles? Without doubt. Conditions for Catholics hadn’t improved for 50 or so years before the troubles and are now infinitely better. Catholics are better represented at all levels, notably in the Police and NI Assembly and now have a lot more equal rights with both national identities recognised. The Good Friday Agreement also lays down the foundations for a United Ireland for the first time since partition, if the people on the island of Ireland agree. It’s just a pity that it took Unionists 25 or so years to basically agree and implement what is basically the Sunningdale Agreement with the Good Friday Agreement. If they had done so in 1973, instead of resorting to Loyalist violence and intimidation to bring it down, then they would have saved a great deal of trouble and removed the vast majority of support for the PIRA. Ironically Paisley was the prime mover behind this falling to bits despite him being such an advocate of the GFA when he had a sniff of power.
Joined: Apr 06 2004 Posts: 4420 Location: The Pavilion, Hilton St
Famous wrote: Have Catholics got a better deal now than before the troubles? Without doubt. Conditions for Catholics hadn’t improved for 50 or so years before the troubles and are now infinitely better. Catholics are better represented at all levels, notably in the Police and NI Assembly and now have a lot more equal rights with both national identities recognised. The Good Friday Agreement also lays down the foundations for a United Ireland for the first time since partition, if the people on the island of Ireland agree. It’s just a pity that it took Unionists 25 or so years to basically agree and implement what is basically the Sunningdale Agreement with the Good Friday Agreement. If they had done so in 1973, instead of resorting to Loyalist violence and intimidation to bring it down, then they would have saved a great deal of trouble and removed the vast majority of support for the PIRA. Ironically Paisley was the prime mover behind this falling to bits despite him being such an advocate of the GFA when he had a sniff of power.
The Catholic population in Northern Ireland increased year after year following partition. Alright, voting opportunities were hindered but a better quality of life was available in the North.
If demographic trends continue the way they are going there will be a Catholic majority in the north within a few years but that doesn't necessarily mean that there will be a majority in favour of a united Irish republic. I can't see the Dublin government even wanting control of the North. Would they be able to deal with 1 million armed and angry protestants?
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"Ding dong the murderer is dead" 
