Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29811 Location: West Yorkshire
hezza1969 wrote:It's not like we should be surprised, from a man of questionable moral standing.
Quite an accusation, could you please explain precisely what you meant by this? I suggest you look up the laws on slander and defamation before your considered reply.
Didn't he pay a £30,000 fee to hire a man who'd been convicted of kicking another man 27 times in the head whilst said victim was lying on the floor? Some could argue that's questionable moralswise. Just saying. Is it "moral" to use your mobile at the wheel or be responsible for inadequate stewarding? Questions, questions.
Mrs Barista wrote:Didn't he pay a £30,000 fee to hire a man who'd been convicted of kicking another man 27 times in the head whilst said victim was lying on the floor? Some could argue that's questionable moralswise. Just saying. Is it "moral" to use your mobile at the wheel or be responsible for inadequate stewarding? Questions, questions.
Personally I am not a fan of BC, although he does seem to have grown up quite a bit but never having met him I don't feel inclined to judge ( not that I am accusing anybody of judging) Now BC had served in a war zone and who knows the effect that this had on his behaviour, again not condoning but simply arguing that there are sometimes factors that can contribute to stupidity.
If we are talking about criminal behaviour we could look at Stuart Reardon, Leon Price or even Ifeta Paleaaesina. All former Hull players signed after convictions for assault, including on a woman! Perhaps as questionable morally. Although I did not see a rush from Hull FC to get rid of Paul Cooke after his difficulties.
We all have our moral compass but somehow the rivalry does tend to skew it a little.
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29811 Location: West Yorkshire
hezza1969 wrote:I do not know if NH or Rovers paid for the defence, personally I am not a fan of BC, although he does seem to have grown up quite a bit but never having met him I don't feel inclined to judge ( not that I am accusing anybody of judging) However I would argue that everybody has a right to legal representation (although the 'person' who killed Lee Rigby and is now suing for damages does make me question this belief) Now BC had served in a war zone and who knows the effect that this had on his behaviour, again not condoning but simply arguing that there are sometimes factors that can contribute to stupidity.
If we are talking about criminal behaviour we could look at Stuart Reardon, Leon Price or even Ifeta Paleaaesina. All former Hull players signed after convictions for assault, including on a woman! Perhaps more questionable morally than allegedly paying for a defence of a player not yet convicted. Although I would guess that if either NH or the club paid for BC's defence then he would have been required to pay it back in the same way Paul Cooke was required to pay Hull FC back after his difficulties.
We all have our moral compass but somehow the rivalry does tend to skew it a little.
Oh dear. The points were as follows. Someone questioned Hudgell's morals. You invoked slander and defamation. I pointed out that Neil Hudgell paid a fee, rumoured to be £30k, to acquire Ben Cockayne from Wakefield after conviction for violent crime (and some untoward comments on Twitter) and that this could construed as lacking in robust morality. No one is claiming Hull FC have the highground so your points are an irrelevance to the point made.
hezza1969 wrote:Personally I am not a fan of BC, although he does seem to have grown up quite a bit but never having met him I don't feel inclined to judge ( not that I am accusing anybody of judging) Now BC had served in a war zone and who knows the effect that this had on his behaviour, again not condoning but simply arguing that there are sometimes factors that can contribute to stupidity.
If we are talking about criminal behaviour we could look at Stuart Reardon, Leon Price or even Ifeta Paleaaesina. All former Hull players signed after convictions for assault, including on a woman! Perhaps as questionable morally. Although I did not see a rush from Hull FC to get rid of Paul Cooke after his difficulties.
We all have our moral compass but somehow the rivalry does tend to skew it a little.
Don't forget that crookes kid that punched a women in the face in town
Before anybody thinks I am having a pop, I would like to make clear that I am not, if everybody who made a mistake was not allowed a second chance we would all be in trouble. What I am trying to say is that some people have an irrational dislike of our chairman and are willing to overlook certain facts to support their own view on events. It is easy to have a pop at NH but if you look at his charity he has put a lot back into the city outside of rugby. Perhaps this should be taken into consideration when judging.
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29811 Location: West Yorkshire
hezza1969 wrote:Before anybody thinks I am having a pop, I would like to make clear that I am not, if everybody who made a mistake was not allowed a second chance we would all be in trouble. What I am trying to say is that some people have an irrational dislike of our chairman and are willing to overlook certain facts to support their own view on events. It is easy to have a pop at NH but if you look at his charity he has put a lot back into the city outside of rugby. Perhaps this should be taken into consideration when judging.
The guy's spent £4million to essentially end up in the same position you were in leaguewise when he took over 12 years ago, but with an added big debt on the North Stand. I don't mind him. Have you ever listened to Athletico Mince? It's very good, and I think they base their observational comedy personas on him.
Mrs Barista wrote:Oh dear. The points were as follows. Someone questioned Hudgell's morals. You invoked slander and defamation. I pointed out that Neil Hudgell paid a fee, rumoured to be £30k, to acquire Ben Cockayne from Wakefield after conviction for violent crime (and some untoward comments on Twitter) and that this could construed as lacking in robust morality. No one is claiming Hull FC have the highground so your points are an irrelevance to the point made.
I admit I did read your post wrong and have since corrected my response. If you read my actual point the person stated NH was "a man of questionable moral standing" I simply challenged him to support that statement with the advice that he should make sure that he could support his position otherwise he could well be accused of defamation.
I think my point on our moral compass being skewed by our support for our team has in many ways been demonstrated by your own contribution regarding BC resigning for Rovers. You conviniently overlooked the recruitment of the players mentioned whilst at the same time pointing out BC's faults, a point supported by Oafy when he pointed out about the player I forgot about who Hull kept after his conviction. In effect using the decision to recruit BC as a guide it could be argued that Hull have also had some people of 'questionable moral standing' making recruitment and retention decisions. I am not saying that this is the case but what I am saying is that with this particular topic people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29811 Location: West Yorkshire
hezza1969 wrote:I admit I did read your post wrong and have since corrected my response. If you read my actual point the person stated NH was "a man of questionable moral standing" I simply challenged him to support that statement with the advice that he should make sure that he could support his position otherwise he could well be accused of defamation.
I think my point on our moral compass being skewed by our support for our team has in many ways been demonstrated by your own contribution regarding BC resigning for Rovers. You conviniently overlooked the recruitment of the players mentioned whilst at the same time pointing out BC's faults, a point supported by Oafy when he pointed out about the player I forgot about who Hull kept after his conviction. In effect using the decision to recruit BC as a guide it could be argued that Hull have also had some people of 'questionable moral standing' making recruitment and retention decisions. I am not saying that this is the case but what I am saying is that with this particular topic people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Not at all. I suggested paying a fee for a violent criminal could potentially be used as to support the moral questionability assertion. The counter was to bring up morally questionable signings by Hull FC. I can see why you'd want to deflect, but maybe DGM has made a good point which you can't address directly. A shame that. Do try Bob and Andy's podcast. "Eh! Eh! Do you remember, do you remember in the niiiiineteeneeeiiiiggghhhttiiies..??"
Mrs Barista wrote:Not at all. I suggested paying a fee for a violent criminal could potentially be used as to support the moral questionability assertion. The counter was to bring up morally questionable signings by Hull FC. I can see why you'd want to deflect, but maybe DGM has made a good point which you can't address directly. A shame that. Do try Bob and Andy's podcast. "Eh! Eh! Do you remember, do you remember in the niiiiineteeneeeiiiiggghhhttiiies..??"
Are you suggesting the fee is the issue? or the fact that he has been violent? If it is the fee then are you saying morality has a price? If it is the violent aspect then raising the Hull FC signing's has a direct relevance to the argument you put forward as this could be comparative morality in action and supports my earlier moral compass assertion. I am not attempting to deflect but simply responding to the arguments you are using. I will state that I was very much against resigning BC and fully agreed with Rovers releasing him. I found his past behaviour questionable at best. At no point did I defend this signing, or at least I did not intend to.
I may be missing something but I am struggling to see what I have not addressed directly. I simply challenged DGM to support his statement with the caveat that it should be provable, I would have thought that was fairly clear. It was you who brought BC's signing into the argument I simply responded with the argument that using this could potentially raise questions regarding your own recruitment strategy and gave several examples.
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