Post subject: Re: Expansionism back on the agenda?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:34 pm
DGM
International Star
Joined: Mar 03 2015 Posts: 2490
Mild Rover wrote:I've just read on the BBC that Toronto have sold nearly 10,000 season tickets for Championship 1. It that is correct, it is beyond encouraging - it's actually astonishing.
Longer-term sustainability has always been where clubs outside the heartlands have fallen down, so there's bound to be some scepticism - but I doubt any have ever made that strong a start.
Super Rugby (Union) now has teams in Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Japan and Argentina.
They seem to be doing everything the right way so far.
If it works, and they manage to make SL fairly quickly, there's no reason why that formula can't be created in other North American cities. Perez has already mentioned Florida & Montreal, and the are RL clubs scattered around the US (mostly on the East I believe).
Two of the main arguments are British RL fans are, "what if we lose a heartlands club in the process" or "why don't they play in their own league".
The problem is, British RL doesn't have 12 strong clubs. It probably has 5/6 realistically, that that just isn't enough to sustain the sport, and isn't much of pull for broadcasters and sponsors, or media attention. Catalans add a lot to the comp, and I'm sure Toronto and Toulouse will do that too if they get there. A sport confined to the M62 corridor in the modern day will die a slow death.
Heartlands clubs will survive, they'll just find their level, and the current structure will benefit those who adapt & grow. They could take a lot from what Toronto have done and I'm sure some will, and others will struggle on as they do already.
Ultimately the aim will be for a fully fledged French, British & North American leagues made up of strong, professional clubs. But that just isn't feasible now and is probably a long way off.
Cup Winners: 1914, 1982, 2005, 2016, 2017. Cup Runners-Up: 1908, 1909, 1910, 1922, 1923, 1959, 1960, 1980, 1983, 1985, 2008, 2013. League Champions: 1920, 1921, 1936, 1956, 1958, 1983. League Runners-Up: 1957, 1982, 1984, 2006.
Post subject: Re: Expansionism back on the agenda?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:21 pm
Mild Rover
Moderator
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12664 Location: Leicestershire.
DGM wrote:They seem to be doing everything the right way so far.
If it works, and they manage to make SL fairly quickly, there's no reason why that formula can't be created in other North American cities. Perez has already mentioned Florida & Montreal, and the are RL clubs scattered around the US (mostly on the East I believe).
Two of the main arguments are British RL fans are, "what if we lose a heartlands club in the process" or "why don't they play in their own league".
The problem is, British RL doesn't have 12 strong clubs. It probably has 5/6 realistically, that that just isn't enough to sustain the sport, and isn't much of pull for broadcasters and sponsors, or media attention. Catalans add a lot to the comp, and I'm sure Toronto and Toulouse will do that too if they get there. A sport confined to the M62 corridor in the modern day will die a slow death.
Heartlands clubs will survive, they'll just find their level, and the current structure will benefit those who adapt & grow. They could take a lot from what Toronto have done and I'm sure some will, and others will struggle on as they do already.
Ultimately the aim will be for a fully fledged French, British & North American leagues made up of strong, professional clubs. But that just isn't feasible now and is probably a long way off.
Yeah, at the risk of creating a straw man, for me the bit I've bolded is what people choose to ignore when creating arguments against the desirability of expansion - before we even get to the feasibility.
Well down the road I can imagine something roughly equivalent to what has happened with Welsh RU, with teams representing regions in a cross-border competition. Tbh, while I'd like to imagine a Yorkshire League for heartlands clubs would be a vibrant competition in its own right, it'd probably look somewhat similar to the Principality Premiership, which isn't the happiest of fates.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Post subject: Re: Expansionism back on the agenda?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:52 pm
knockersbumpMKII
International Chairman
ccs wrote:You're living in dream land. So you'll be making 7 or 8 trips abroad every year? Don't make me laugh. It's financially unsustainable.
how do you know what the league structure will be like SHOULD any/all of the teams make the top echelon? How important do you assess the hypothetical away support (in ether direction) for any given team/competition as a whole. What if hypothetically these teams are bringing X multiples more cash in sponsorships to the sport, how about extra TV money. You dismiss it out of hand with typical lopsided, narrow minded chippy RL fan gusto, so predictable.
Post subject: Re: Expansionism back on the agenda?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:07 pm
ccs
International Star
Joined: Aug 15 2011 Posts: 5318
knockersbumpMKII wrote:how do you know what the league structure will be like SHOULD any/all of the teams make the top echelon? How important do you assess the hypothetical away support (in ether direction) for any given team/competition as a whole. What if hypothetically these teams are bringing X multiples more cash in sponsorships to the sport, how about extra TV money. You dismiss it out of hand with typical lopsided, narrow minded chippy RL fan gusto, so predictable.
Sounds like you do know all the answers, bumpy, hypothetically of course. I'm surprised it took you so long to respond in such a predictable way.
I wonder why, after 15+ years of the expansionist Catalans, we are still selling cheap tickets to get people to attend?
Is Hodgson the new Griffin, or is it all about pace?
Post subject: Re: Expansionism back on the agenda?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:35 pm
fun time frankie
International Star
Joined: Aug 13 2011 Posts: 7194 Location: east east hull
ccs wrote:Sounds like you do know all the answers, bumpy, hypothetically of course. I'm surprised it took you so long to respond in such a predictable way.
I wonder why, after 15+ years of the expansionist Catalans, we are still selling cheap tickets to get people to attend?
Doesn't every team do that in reality
einstien said insanity is when a person does the same thing over and over again but expects a different result
Post subject: Re: Expansionism back on the agenda?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:43 pm
ComeOnYouUll
Club Owner
Joined: Sep 25 2003 Posts: 22289
Mild Rover wrote:I've just read on the BBC that Toronto have sold nearly 10,000 season tickets for Championship 1. It that is correct, it is beyond encouraging - it's actually astonishing.
Longer-term sustainability has always been where clubs outside the heartlands have fallen down, so there's bound to be some scepticism - but I doubt any have ever made that strong a start.
Super Rugby (Union) now has teams in Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Japan and Argentina.
I'm not sure if the BBC have got their wires crossed here. Toronto have just about hit 10k Twitter followers. Also their home ground has a capacity of 9,600.
Post subject: Re: Expansionism back on the agenda?
Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:12 pm
Mild Rover
Moderator
Joined: Jun 01 2007 Posts: 12664 Location: Leicestershire.
ComeOnYouUll wrote:I'm not sure if the BBC have got their wires crossed here. Toronto have just about hit 10k Twitter followers. Also their home ground has a capacity of 9,600.
In a call out box on why the RFL say the game is booming. I can't find it anywhere else online though.
ComeOnYouUll wrote:I'm not sure if the BBC have got their wires crossed here. Toronto have just about hit 10k Twitter followers. Also their home ground has a capacity of 9,600.
In a call out box on why the RFL say the game is booming. I can't find it anywhere else online though.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
In a call out box on why the RFL say the game is booming. I can't find it anywhere else online though.
COYH is right I think, BBC are wrong. There is also reports stating "expression of interest" to a similar quantity. I don't believe they have ever announced how many season tickets they have sold.
Mild Rover wrote:It wouldn't surprise me hugely, tbf.
In a call out box on why the RFL say the game is booming. I can't find it anywhere else online though.
COYH is right I think, BBC are wrong. There is also reports stating "expression of interest" to a similar quantity. I don't believe they have ever announced how many season tickets they have sold.
Post subject: Re: Expansionism back on the agenda?
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:45 pm
knockersbumpMKII
International Chairman
ccs wrote:Sounds like you do know all the answers, bumpy, hypothetically of course. I'm surprised it took you so long to respond in such a predictable way.
I wonder why, after 15+ years of the expansionist Catalans, we are still selling cheap tickets to get people to attend?
Answer the questions! Predictable, in what way? You wrote a load of typically dismissive/shut the gate nonsense that has nothing at all except hypothication as your arguement which is weak at best, for you THAT is predictable as it is for many chippy Northerners that support RL. You simply are narrow minded and can't imagine that challenges can be met and indeed might well be needed to keep the sport going, currently we are going backwards and have done for decades.
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