Kelvin's Ferret wrote:Corbyn's politics are a sort of student union' left-wing populism, it's based on a sort of "the enemy of my enemy" schtick, so for example he can get over people actually being murderous terrorists or anti-semites or any number of harmful things as long as they self-identify as opposing ideological concept he also opposes e.g. "American imperialism" or "Neoliberalism". It is in many ways the opposite of "small c" conservative pragmatism, because the actual harm done by these "friends" is considered less than the conceptual harm that can be attributed to the "enemy ideologies". The purity of the ideology is more important than the physical manifestation, so fare example stuff should be nationalised on principle even if the actual result would be no better or possibly even worse. This plays well with a substantial minority, but the majority, including the realist "left" which most of the Parliamentary Labour Party belong to, know its juvenile rubbish and the "real world" is more complex.

Corbyn won't be the end of the Labour Party, he's got to be given a chance to fail and hope that a new (pre-Iraq War) Blair figure can be found, who can put forward a sensible platform to rebuild on. It must be remembered that hard Left "Corbynistas" need the Labour brand, there are any number of socialist factions who've going nowhere slowly for a long time with the same schtick.

wrencat1873 wrote:Despite party membership increasing, Corbyn's Labour Party reached a new low this week, losing its deposit at the Richmond by-election.
Although its a one off and these things dont decide the make up of the next parliament, for the main opposition party to suffer such a low share of the vote is quite unbelievable.
Of course, the Libdems threw everything, including the kitchen sink, at this one but, Labour appear to be facing political oblivion.
UKIP are taking increasingly large chunks of Labours traditional support (although not in this particular seat) and with Scotland now solidly SNP, how can Labour ever expect to take power in Westminster in the future.

wrencat1873 wrote:Although nobody is ever likely to forgive Blair, for his part in the Iraq war and nor should they, he did recognise that it's no good having policies and principles if enough people wont vote for them.
Corbyn, in this respect, has gone backwards.
His whole ethos is to stand by his personal thoughts and principles and hope that eventually enough people will come round to his way of thinking.
With the Libdems in turmoil (apart from the Richmond win) and the Tories likely to move further right, now is the time to mop up all of the centre ground.
It may not quite fit with his ideals but, if you dont have hold of the reigns, you cant ride the horse.

DGM wrote:I suppose that's why the Labour Membership voted him in, twice, hoping that he can convert those personal principles and values into realistic policies that the general electorate and also his MP's can get behind. That second bit hasn't happened yet, and doesn't look like it will do to be honest, but he'd be a massive hypocrite just like most of the others in Westminster if he did as you suggest.

Ultimately, Corbyn's election wins were also protest votes in a sense. A big 'f-you' to the career-politicians and bull**itters that most of us loathe, people voting for anti-establishment, just like other votes we've seen in recent years.

However, the Richmond by-election isn't really one to judge him on. There have though been 6 other by-elections since Corbyn was elected leader, with Labour holding 5, and the Tories holding 1, but I must have missed the 5 threads on here titled "Labour heading for power"

DGM wrote:I suppose that's why the Labour Membership voted him in, twice, hoping that he can convert those personal principles and values into realistic policies that the general electorate and also his MP's can get behind. That second bit hasn't happened yet, and doesn't look like it will do to be honest, but he'd be a massive hypocrite just like most of the others in Westminster if he did as you suggest.

Ultimately, Corbyn's election wins were also protest votes in a sense. A big 'f-you' to the career-politicians and bull**itters that most of us loathe, people voting for anti-establishment, just like other votes we've seen in recent years.

However, the Richmond by-election isn't really one to judge him on. There have though been 6 other by-elections since Corbyn was elected leader, with Labour holding 5, and the Tories holding 1, but I must have missed the 5 threads on here titled "Labour heading for power"

wrencat1873 wrote:It looks like the downhill slope is getting steeper for Corbyn and his team.
Although Sleaford is a true blue constituency, a further drop on their performance in the General Election, saw Labour come in 4th and receive only 7% of the vote.

wrencat1873 wrote:I'm sure that it's all under control but, with some Labour politicians now happily confirming a jump to the left and their "happiness" about the Momentum group's influence on the party, Labour definitely risk becoming a fringe party.

Quote:He doesn't look or sound like a statesman

Exiled down south wrote:Sadly for him the job of PM requires that you are a statesman and represent the country on the world stage. People are proud of this country and wouldn't want a rag bag like that representing them.

Blair, Obama, Cameron, even Sturgeon are smart, articulate and represent their respective countries on global front very well. How would Corbyn look turning up for a meeting with the Chinese, Japaneses, American... leaders. Even if he had something of value to say the message would be lost.