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 Post subject: Re: Salary Cap
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:40 pm 
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Gotcha wrote:Lilley was on £750 per month at end of last year. Not sure if still the case, but I would hope not, as it might explain part of the problem with the team.


That was similar to what Chris Ashton was on when he was playing regular first team rugby for us. No wonder he went off to play the softer code.

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 Post subject: Re: Salary Cap
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:20 pm 
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Wigg'n wrote:That was similar to what Chris Ashton was on when he was playing regular first team rugby for us. No wonder he went off to play the softer code.


Wasn't Joe Burgess supposed to be on something similar despite playing first team all season?

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 Post subject: Re: Salary Cap
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:31 pm 
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Perhaps another way of looking at the cap is that maybe the sport simply can't support full time professional squads of a suitable size and strength without financially ruining clubs.






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 Post subject: Re: Salary Cap
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:11 pm 
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DHM wrote:Perhaps another way of looking at the cap is that maybe the sport simply can't support full time professional squads of a suitable size and strength without financially ruining clubs.

22million is doled out to SL clubs just in the tv deal (which doesnt even include the other tv money which goes to the RFL and is given to the lower league clubs).

Leeds and Les Catalans bring in roughly another 8m each. which means there is £38m

Wire, Saints, Wigan roughly £5m more each, which would mean there is about £58m

Even if we are quite strict and say the other clubs only average a turnover about £2m more a year, that would give us another £14m. So roughly £70-75m a year.

The SC is £21.6m, so just shy of 30% of our turnover. If every club is spending it.

We comfortably have enough money to be paying players more. Possibly we dont have the money to subsidise clubs operating at a higher level than there infrastructure provides for, but the SC doesnt address that and never will.






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 Post subject: Re: Salary Cap
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:19 pm 
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SmokeyTA wrote:22million is doled out to SL clubs just in the tv deal (which doesnt even include the other tv money which goes to the RFL and is given to the lower league clubs).

Leeds and Les Catalans bring in roughly another 8m each. which means there is £38m

Wire, Saints, Wigan roughly £5m more each, which would mean there is about £58m

Even if we are quite strict and say the other clubs only average a turnover about £2m more a year, that would give us another £14m. So roughly £70-75m a year.

The SC is £21.6m, so just shy of 30% of our turnover. If every club is spending it.

We comfortably have enough money to be paying players more. Possibly we dont have the money to subsidise clubs operating at a higher level than there infrastructure provides for, but the SC doesnt address that and never will.


Lots of clubs acquired a lot of debt during the early years of SL that they are only now beginning to get on top of and manage (Widnes and Castleford I believe have both announced this year that they are now debt free from that time period iirc). Fundamentally as a sport were only now reaching the point of paying for previous generations financial mistakes. Whether we like "SL rabble" or not, having 10+ teams able to compete is a minimum requirement for the competitive sport were going for. While certain clubs may never be able to regain the assets they lost during that time period, it should at least mean more stable footing to spend more in the future.

We should see a cap rise (slowly, but definitively) in the next few years on this basis. If we don't I'll be much more compelled by your artificially constrained by chairmen arguments.






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 Post subject: Re: Salary Cap
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:25 am 
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That's playing salaries at 30% of turnover. Plus backroom staff. Plus day-to-day running costs etc.

Leeds total wage bill - for 56 players, 71 admin staff and 110 matchday support staff - in the year to October 2015 was £4.7m, or approximately 34.5% of turnover. Up £650k on the previous year.

Even in a year where every possible amount of revenue was maximised (two final appearances, league leaders prize money) Leeds still only made £1.5m in pre-tax profits. The idea that all clubs can somehow afford to spend a lot more on salaries is a fallacy, unfortunately.

Couple of other interesting points to note from the accounts. Reference is made in the review part at the beginning to the South Stand being demolished at the end of the current season, reducing stadium capacity to approximately 13,000 for at least the early part of the 2017 season. Work to start on the North Stand once the South Stand rebuild has been completed. Obviously this is all contingent on planning permission being obtained by the appropriate time.

Also, the accounts confirm that the ultimate parent company of Leeds CF&AC (the Rhinos trading company) and Leeds Rugby Limited (the holding company) is Caddick Group plc. Caddick Group plc is in turn owned by the Paul Caddick Accumulation and Maintenance Settlement Trust. Do hope, given the current focus on tax avoidance, that isn't based offshore.






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 Post subject: Re: Salary Cap
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:28 am 
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Andy Gilder wrote:That's playing salaries at 30% of turnover. Plus backroom staff. Plus day-to-day running costs etc.

Leeds total wage bill - for 56 players, 71 admin staff and 110 matchday support staff - in the year to October 2015 was £4.7m, or approximately 34.5% of turnover. Up £650k on the previous year.

Even in a year where every possible amount of revenue was maximised (two final appearances, league leaders prize money) Leeds still only made £1.5m in pre-tax profits. The idea that all clubs can somehow afford to spend a lot more on salaries is a fallacy, unfortunately.

Couple of other interesting points to note from the accounts. Reference is made in the review part at the beginning to the South Stand being demolished at the end of the current season, reducing stadium capacity to approximately 13,000 for at least the early part of the 2017 season. Work to start on the North Stand once the South Stand rebuild has been completed. Obviously this is all contingent on planning permission being obtained by the appropriate time.

Also, the accounts confirm that the ultimate parent company of Leeds CF&AC (the Rhinos trading company) and Leeds Rugby Limited (the holding company) is Caddick Group plc. Caddick Group plc is in turn owned by the Paul Caddick Accumulation and Maintenance Settlement Trust. Do hope, given the current focus on tax avoidance, that isn't based offshore.


Remember backroom and admin staff is not indicative of a general club. We have all the costs of the union going through also don't forget.






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 Post subject: Re: Salary Cap
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:31 am 
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Gotcha wrote:Remember backroom and admin staff is not indicative of a general club. We have all the costs of the union going through also don't forget.


For which they paid net about £550k in the year. The idea that Carnegie use the Rhinos resources for nothing isn't borne out by the notes to the accounts.






"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin

//twitter.com/AndyGilder

//fromthewesternterrace.blogspot.co.uk

This week: Four keys to a Rhinos win in the WCC

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 Post subject: Re: Salary Cap
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:28 am 
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Andy Gilder wrote:That's playing salaries at 30% of turnover. Plus backroom staff. Plus day-to-day running costs etc.

Leeds total wage bill - for 56 players, 71 admin staff and 110 matchday support staff - in the year to October 2015 was £4.7m, or approximately 34.5% of turnover. Up £650k on the previous year.

Even in a year where every possible amount of revenue was maximised (two final appearances, league leaders prize money) Leeds still only made £1.5m in pre-tax profits. The idea that all clubs can somehow afford to spend a lot more on salaries is a fallacy, unfortunately.

Couple of other interesting points to note from the accounts. Reference is made in the review part at the beginning to the South Stand being demolished at the end of the current season, reducing stadium capacity to approximately 13,000 for at least the early part of the 2017 season. Work to start on the North Stand once the South Stand rebuild has been completed. Obviously this is all contingent on planning permission being obtained by the appropriate time.

Also, the accounts confirm that the ultimate parent company of Leeds CF&AC (the Rhinos trading company) and Leeds Rugby Limited (the holding company) is Caddick Group plc. Caddick Group plc is in turn owned by the Paul Caddick Accumulation and Maintenance Settlement Trust. Do hope, given the current focus on tax avoidance, that isn't based offshore.

Leeds made a £1.5M profit, I am sure some legal accounting will have gone on here to keep profit down to minimise the tax paid. So Leeds could say double players wages and still break even.

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 Post subject: Re: Salary Cap
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:21 am 
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Andy Gilder wrote:That's playing salaries at 30% of turnover. Plus backroom staff. Plus day-to-day running costs etc.

Leeds total wage bill - for 56 players, 71 admin staff and 110 matchday support staff - in the year to October 2015 was £4.7m, or approximately 34.5% of turnover. Up £650k on the previous year.

Even in a year where every possible amount of revenue was maximised (two final appearances, league leaders prize money) Leeds still only made £1.5m in pre-tax profits. The idea that all clubs can somehow afford to spend a lot more on salaries is a fallacy, unfortunately.

Couple of other interesting points to note from the accounts. Reference is made in the review part at the beginning to the South Stand being demolished at the end of the current season, reducing stadium capacity to approximately 13,000 for at least the early part of the 2017 season. Work to start on the North Stand once the South Stand rebuild has been completed. Obviously this is all contingent on planning permission being obtained by the appropriate time.

Also, the accounts confirm that the ultimate parent company of Leeds CF&AC (the Rhinos trading company) and Leeds Rugby Limited (the holding company) is Caddick Group plc. Caddick Group plc is in turn owned by the Paul Caddick Accumulation and Maintenance Settlement Trust. Do hope, given the current focus on tax avoidance, that isn't based offshore.

Hey Mr Player we definitely can't afford to pay you your market value i only made 1.5m profit from your endeavours last year. We are all in this together here so me and all the other guys have decided none of us will be allowed to pay you your market value. Don't worry though I'm going to spend some of that money I save from not paying you your market value and as little of my own considerable personal wealth as I can get away with upgrading my multimillion pound asset so I can make more money






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bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

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