FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Virtual Terrace Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 183 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:32 pm 
Club Owner
Club Owner

Joined: May 24 2006
Posts: 22777
Derwent wrote:Each member club of the RFL is a signatory that they agree to abide by the Operational Rules, including this one :-

A1:3 Each Person Subject to the Operational Rules agrees that they waive irrevocably their right to any form of challenge, claim, complaint, appeal, review or recourse (including in relation to any dispute arising out of or in connection with the validity of any Operational Rule(s) or RFL Policies) to any state court or other judicial authority

You cannot sign away your right to legal recourse if the RFL are breaking the law. The courts decision supersedes any and all conditions of RFL membership.

That same clause applies to SC as it would to things like racial and sexual discrimination. By signing that you do not absolve the RFL or the operational rules from adhering to the law.






//www.pngnrlbid.com

bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:38 pm 
Club Owner
Club Owner

Joined: May 24 2006
Posts: 22777
barham red wrote:The laws of a sport have no bearing on the law of the land. Therefore the only way it could be challenged would be if it infringed on a persons right to earn. The Bosman ruling worked purely because it actually kept a player tied to a club even though he wasn't earning or under contract.
The salary cap doesn't stop a player earning as big a wage as he can get, it just restricts what a club can offer. The player can then either accept or reject that offer. No restrictions at all on the person.

There is a restraint on the person in both principle and practice. It does stop a player earning his market worth. If it didn't it would exist and certainly wouldn't be called a salary cap. You can't argue that it doesn't stop a player earning x amount just a club offering x amount because they amount to the same thing. If a club cannot offer x amount a player cannot earn it.

The defence of it wouldn't be that it wasn't a restraint of trade but that it was a reasonable one based on its effect on the market, players and fans, that it was procompetititve. A strong argument in theory can be made in favour of the SC on those basis. In practice, in RL, with our recent history, I think it would be a difficult one to make.






//www.pngnrlbid.com

bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:42 pm 
Club Owner
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Feb 25 2004
Posts: 2874
Location: Sometimes Workington, Sometimes Warrington, Often on the M6
SmokeyTA wrote:You cannot sign away your right to legal recourse if the RFL are breaking the law. The courts decision supersedes any and all conditions of RFL membership.

That same clause applies to SC as it would to things like racial and sexual discrimination. By signing that you do not absolve the RFL or the operational rules from adhering to the law.


That's not true. You can sign away rights to legal recourse, an obvious example being COT3 settlement agreements between employers and employees. After an employee signs a COT3 they waive all rights to any further legal claims.

Similarly, the RFL is not compelled to accept Salford as a member. They have no legal right to membership of the RFL and can be expelled. People forget that the RFL isn't just the people at Red Hall, it is actually a collective of member clubs and by suing Salford would essentially be suing their fellow member clubs.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:52 pm 
Club Owner
Club Owner

Joined: May 24 2006
Posts: 22777
Derwent wrote:That's not true. You can sign away rights to legal recourse, an obvious example being COT3 settlement agreements between employers and employees. After an employee signs a COT3 they waive all rights to any further legal claims.
said employer is still bound by the law at all stages. If part of the process of the COT3 is unlawful it can be challenged.

Quote:Similarly, the RFL is not compelled to accept Salford as a member. They have no legal right to membership of the RFL and can be expelled. People forget that the RFL isn't just the people at Red Hall, it is actually a collective of member clubs and by suing Salford would essentially be suing their fellow member clubs.
Salford are a member. They have a contract with the RFL that forms the basis of their membership. They cannot have that membership withdrawn without good reason. Not breaking the law like the RFL wanted them to is not good reason






//www.pngnrlbid.com

bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:05 pm 
International Chairman
International Board Member
User avatar

Joined: Feb 17 2002
Posts: 28357
Location: MACS0647-JD
SmokeyTA wrote:You cannot sign away your right to legal recourse if the RFL are breaking the law. The courts decision supersedes any and all conditions of RFL membership.

That same clause applies to SC as it would to things like racial and sexual discrimination. By signing that you do not absolve the RFL or the operational rules from adhering to the law.


The salary cap in my view indisputably restricts both competition, and free movement of workers. So, would be held unlawful under EU law unless it can be justified. That in turn would depend on whether the salary cap rules are necessary to achieve a legitimate aim under EU law.

Therein would lie the argument.

If the aim of the SC was to improve competitive balance, then I think there would be some prospect of it being upheld. But the actual aim of the SC is, in a nutshell, mainly to stop clubs overspending and going bust (because it is directly linked to income) . Would that pass muster? .
Quote:"Clubs have a direct interest not only in there being other teams, clubs and athletes, but also in their economic viability as competitors."
European Commission White Paper on Sport


It is arguable that it could, but ultimately IMHO the argument would be lost, as there are just too many obstacles to jump before the ECJ would make such a finding.

If you can get hold of it, do read a very good article titled "The Problem With Salary Caps Under European Union Law: The Case Against Financial Fair Play" by Johan Lindholm, which puts lots of flesh on these and other relevant arguments, and contains hundreds of references and authorities.






Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:13 pm 
Club Owner
Club Owner

Joined: May 24 2006
Posts: 22777
Ferocious Aardvark wrote:The salary cap in my view indisputably restricts both competition, and free movement of workers. So, would be held unlawful under EU law unless it can be justified. That in turn would depend on whether the salary cap rules are necessary to achieve a legitimate aim under EU law.

Therein would lie the argument.

If the aim of the SC was to improve competitive balance, then I think there would be some prospect of it being upheld. But the actual aim of the SC is, in a nutshell, mainly to stop clubs overspending and going bust (because it is directly linked to income) . Would that pass muster? .
It is arguable that it could, but ultimately IMHO the argument would be lost, as there are just too many obstacles to jump before the ECJ would make such a finding.
I agree pretty much entirely. It's not that a Salary Cap per se cannot be justified. I just don't think ours would be.

Quote:If you can get hold of it, do read a very good article titled "The Problem With Salary Caps Under European Union Law: The Case Against Financial Fair Play" by Johan Lindholm, which puts lots of flesh on these and other relevant arguments, and contains hundreds of references and authorities.
I'll keep a look out for it






//www.pngnrlbid.com

bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:13 pm 
Player Coach
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Mar 30 2009
Posts: 5035
LOL @ thinking the cap is a restraint of trade. There's a reason sports AROUND THE WORLD use them, if they weren't legal they'd have been picked apart decades ago.

Unless you can provide examples of when a player has literally been unable to play RL in this country due to no teams having the available salary cap space made available to teams by the RFL? If you can't then there's your answer to restraint of trade being a thing.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:16 pm 
Club Owner
Club Owner

Joined: May 24 2006
Posts: 22777
Gronk! wrote:LOL @ thinking the cap is a restraint of trade. There's a reason sports AROUND THE WORLD use them, if they weren't legal they'd have been picked apart decades ago.

Unless you can provide examples of when a player has literally been unable to play RL in this country due to no teams having the available salary cap space?

Lol indeed.






//www.pngnrlbid.com

bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:20 pm 
Player Coach
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Mar 30 2009
Posts: 5035
SmokeyTA wrote:Lol indeed.


I take it you have no examples (with sources) of a Rugby League players ability to apply his trade in the UK being hindered by the salary cap then?

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:29 pm 
Club Owner
Club Owner

Joined: May 24 2006
Posts: 22777
Every single player to have played for the last 15 years. Source. Being able to understand what the word cap means






//www.pngnrlbid.com

bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 183 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next





It is currently Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:19 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 50 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:19 am
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Recruitment rumours and links
Or thane
3542
7m
Squad 2025
Faxlore
31
17m
New Players
Deadcowboys1
129
22m
Game - Song Titles
Wildmoggy
40594
22m
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
171
24m
BORED The Band Name Game
Wildmoggy
63083
26m
Film game
Wildmoggy
5327
43m
removing posts
PopTart
7
56m
IMG Score
Scarey71
73
56m
Shopping list for 2025
Dave K.
5537
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
46s
The Brick Stadium ownership update
stpatricks
29
51s
New Kit
matt_wire
66
52s
Merry Christmas
The Curtism
6
56s
IMG Score
Scarey71
73
56s
New Players
Deadcowboys1
129
1m
Game - Song Titles
Wildmoggy
40594
1m
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
171
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Wildmoggy
63083
1m
Shopping list for 2025
Dave K.
5537
1m
removing posts
PopTart
7
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
RIP Keith Hepworth 1942-2024
Jake the Peg
4
TODAY
9000 season ticket holders announced
Bombers Doub
1
TODAY
Merry Christmas
The Curtism
6
TODAY
I dont think this is a good signing for the Leopards
Huddersfield
7
TODAY
Red Devils sign International forward
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Hospitality packages including new refurbished Foxs Bar
AgbriggAmble
10
TODAY
Offiah on Salary Cap
Shifty Cat
11
TODAY
removing posts
PopTart
7
TODAY
Season pass roll call
Rugby Raider
30
TODAY
Positivity Pact
Sebasteeno
3
TODAY
Jack Coventry
Wanderer
1
TODAY
A Year to Remember
Wigg'n
3
TODAY
2025 Annual
JamieRobinso
1
TODAY
2025 KIT Thread
Sadfish
1
TODAY
NRL Kick Off Rules
stpatricks
7
TODAY
Garry Schofield
PopTart
6
TODAY
Out of contract 2025
Alffi_7
9
TODAY
Gary Schofield
hull2524
10
TODAY
Joe Phillips
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Andy Ellis
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Manoa Wacokecoke
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jeylan Hodgson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Mackenzie Harman
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Ben Dent
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Callum Rutland
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Harry Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jack Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Garry Schofield
rubber ducki
14
TODAY
Lennon Bursell
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Brett Ferres
Wanderer
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
960
England's Women Demolish The W..
800
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1053
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
855
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1123
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1648
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1904
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2154
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1728
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1967
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2434
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1874
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1961
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
2147
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2280
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Recruitment rumours and links
Or thane
3542
7m
Squad 2025
Faxlore
31
17m
New Players
Deadcowboys1
129
22m
Game - Song Titles
Wildmoggy
40594
22m
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
171
24m
BORED The Band Name Game
Wildmoggy
63083
26m
Film game
Wildmoggy
5327
43m
removing posts
PopTart
7
56m
IMG Score
Scarey71
73
56m
Shopping list for 2025
Dave K.
5537
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
46s
The Brick Stadium ownership update
stpatricks
29
51s
New Kit
matt_wire
66
52s
Merry Christmas
The Curtism
6
56s
IMG Score
Scarey71
73
56s
New Players
Deadcowboys1
129
1m
Game - Song Titles
Wildmoggy
40594
1m
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
171
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Wildmoggy
63083
1m
Shopping list for 2025
Dave K.
5537
1m
removing posts
PopTart
7
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
RIP Keith Hepworth 1942-2024
Jake the Peg
4
TODAY
9000 season ticket holders announced
Bombers Doub
1
TODAY
Merry Christmas
The Curtism
6
TODAY
I dont think this is a good signing for the Leopards
Huddersfield
7
TODAY
Red Devils sign International forward
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Hospitality packages including new refurbished Foxs Bar
AgbriggAmble
10
TODAY
Offiah on Salary Cap
Shifty Cat
11
TODAY
removing posts
PopTart
7
TODAY
Season pass roll call
Rugby Raider
30
TODAY
Positivity Pact
Sebasteeno
3
TODAY
Jack Coventry
Wanderer
1
TODAY
A Year to Remember
Wigg'n
3
TODAY
2025 Annual
JamieRobinso
1
TODAY
2025 KIT Thread
Sadfish
1
TODAY
NRL Kick Off Rules
stpatricks
7
TODAY
Garry Schofield
PopTart
6
TODAY
Out of contract 2025
Alffi_7
9
TODAY
Gary Schofield
hull2524
10
TODAY
Joe Phillips
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Andy Ellis
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Manoa Wacokecoke
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jeylan Hodgson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Mackenzie Harman
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Ben Dent
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Callum Rutland
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Harry Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jack Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Garry Schofield
rubber ducki
14
TODAY
Lennon Bursell
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Brett Ferres
Wanderer
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
960
England's Women Demolish The W..
800
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1053
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
855
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1123
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1648
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1904
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2154
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1728
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1967
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2434
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1874
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1961
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
2147
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2280


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.