Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:45 pm
Dr Chim Richalds
Club Owner
Joined: Oct 16 2003 Posts: 3575 Location: Keeping my head down the wrong side of Fiddlers Ferry..
Him wrote:Absolutely. It was terrible. 2 people who are paid to understand the issues in our game don't even know the absolute basics of a big news story that had broken days beforehand and was reported by the organisation they work for.
Sadly it's not an isolated incident and exemplifies the shoddy and unprofessional nature of the Sky RL team at the moment.
I didn't see the item so I can't comment on what was said but how much of the Salford story is publicly out there as stated fact? i.e. there is a lot of talk about the contract situation, plenty of details about who these contracts were with, who was employed under them and the sort of money being paid but how much of this is in the public domain officially and how much is known 'through the grapevine'? Broadcasters obviously have to be careful what they mention on air. I notice that that RFL statement itself doesn't provide much detail.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:50 pm
Andy Gilder
International Board Member
Joined: Apr 03 2003 Posts: 28186 Location: A world of my own ...
Dr Chim Richalds wrote:I didn't see the item so I can't comment on what was said but how much of the Salford story is publicly out there as stated fact? i.e. there is a lot of talk about the contract situation, plenty of details about who these contracts were with, who was employed under them and the sort of money being paid but how much of this is in the public domain officially and how much is known 'through the grapevine'? Broadcasters obviously have to be careful what they mention on air. I notice that that RFL statement itself doesn't provide much detail.
The part which irked me was Hemmings questioning why the RFL hadn't picked these breaches up in the seasons concerned, now they have a "live" salary cap. It's a major news story within the game and most fans have at least a basic grasp of what the allegations are, but neither he nor Clarke seemed to have bothered to do even the slightest bit of research. They didn't need to run a major forensic investigation on it, but it's pretty clear why they didn't come to light in the seasons concerned which made it a dumb question to ask.
"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:55 pm
Dr Chim Richalds
Club Owner
Joined: Oct 16 2003 Posts: 3575 Location: Keeping my head down the wrong side of Fiddlers Ferry..
Andy Gilder wrote:The part which irked me was Hemmings questioning why the RFL hadn't picked these breaches up in the seasons concerned, now they have a "live" salary cap. It's a major news story within the game and most fans have at least a basic grasp of what the allegations are, but neither he nor Clarke seemed to have bothered to do even the slightest bit of research. They didn't need to run a major forensic investigation on it, but it's pretty clear why they didn't come to light in the seasons concerned which made it a dumb question to ask.
No fair enough buddy, did the answer come out or was speculated about when the question was asked out of interest?
Just wondering whether they might have decided that a 'mock ignorance' question and answer session might have been a format to provide the info. Makes it a bit more interesting than just spouting info. Like you said... one of the biggest stories in British RL for a long time so surprising that they wouldn't at least know the basics.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 3:19 pm
Gronk!
Player Coach
Joined: Mar 30 2009 Posts: 5035
John Gilbert Reds wrote:I don't understand. Wigan breached the cap by £222,000 in 2007, it was the biggest breach in Super League history. They were given a 4 points deduction, surely a precedent has been set. Salford are being charged with an alleged breach (or breaches) totalling (best case) £40k and (worst case) £80k. When I say best and worst case, I am unsure whether they can use 2015 against us as the whole reason behind Tony Puletua's very public fued and subsequent tribunal was due to non-payment.
Whether or not one seems unlikely or not, there is only evidence to suggest at this moment in time there is. Unless other players come forward with appropriate evidence, which I doubt as HMRC would jump straight on them, then we'll never know.
It's not really 80k as a "worst case" if it was, say, every player in the squad for 2 years...
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:37 pm
Asgardian13
Player Coach
Joined: Oct 31 2005 Posts: 3726 Location: Northamptonshire
John Gilbert Reds wrote:I don't understand. Wigan breached the cap by £222,000 in 2007, it was the biggest breach in Super League history. They were given a 4 points deduction, surely a precedent has been set.
As I've written elsewhere, Wigan got away with this because their lawyers successfully argued that because the offence had taken place at a time before the more severe penalties had been ratified, then they could only be penalised within the previous guidelines, where the points deductions were more modest. This is how they kept their points deduction down to four. Sadly for Salford, their offence, if proven, took place under the current rules ( 20 point maximum ) so the timing element does not apply in their case. Personally I think Wigan should have had a bigger penalty, but, rules is rules.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:01 pm
bezzerscr
Club Owner
Joined: Sep 25 2003 Posts: 626 Location: Hyde
Strange the number of people quoting Koukash saying he would break the cap choose not to include the rest of the quote that went on to say "like others have done" For clarity the full quote was "if it means breaking the salary cap to challenge the legality ofit I will do it LIKE OTHERS HAVE DONE"
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:32 pm
Andy Gilder
International Board Member
Joined: Apr 03 2003 Posts: 28186 Location: A world of my own ...
bezzerscr wrote:Strange the number of people quoting Koukash saying he would break the cap choose not to include the rest of the quote that went on to say "like others have done" For clarity the full quote was "if it means breaking the salary cap to challenge the legality ofit I will do it LIKE OTHERS HAVE DONE"
If others jumped off a cliff, would Marwan do that too.
Not quite sure what adding the second half of the quote does to mitigate the offence. We're well aware others have broken the cap. Reference has been made to it earlier in the thread.
Salford are still the only ones to have deliberately concealed payments to players in an attempt to get around the cap though, however you dress it up. If Marwan has evidence that other clubs have done the same, then he needs to present it to the appropriate authorities. Put up, or shut up.
"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:55 pm
William Eve
Player Coach
Joined: Oct 07 2005 Posts: 4938
I'm not interested in whether Salford have breached the salary cap by a few bob. Let Koukash spend as much money as he likes on players at Salford. Get some proper world class star players into the SL competition and market the crap out of them FFS. The game is crying out for publicity and attention which it's not going to get with the current crop of plodders and Neville Nobodies populating every team in SL.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:19 am
mark_m
Player Coach
Joined: Jun 16 2005 Posts: 11464
bezzerscr wrote:Strange the number of people quoting Koukash saying he would break the cap choose not to include the rest of the quote that went on to say "like others have done" For clarity the full quote was "if it means breaking the salary cap to challenge the legality ofit I will do it LIKE OTHERS HAVE DONE"
What relevance does that have? I seem to recall him intimating without any grounds whatsoever that Warrington were cheating the system. Which is a complete fabrication.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:37 pm
Ste100Centurions
International Star
Joined: Jun 16 2013 Posts: 2794
[Gareth] wrote:The thing with Wigan is that 'we' didnt actually break the salary cap i.e. we didnt spend more in that year on wages than we where allowed to. The payments where simply back-loaded into into the contracts which is common practice in plenty of sports (the NFL being a prime example)
The RFL had to be seen to be doing something about it so Wigan got charged with breaking the 'spirit of the cap'
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