Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:53 pm
jools
Player Coach
Joined: Jun 09 2011 Posts: 10464
I can't understand why the Salford fans are moaning and crying they are being picked on. Marwan knew there was a salary cap (although it appears not from day one!) and knows that all clubs are bound to abide with it or risk punishment. he's publicly stated he will break the cap, he's now found to have deliberately broken the cap by cheating- it clearly states in the rules that payments of this type must be declared as part of the cap. Salford aren't being picked on by the RFL, they are doing what they would do if they found any other club had done this. Other clubs have been dealt with under the rules as they stood at the time. When Wigan did what they did there were no rules to state that contracts couldn't be backloaded- there are now!!! That is why they weren't charged with breaking the cap but with breaking the "spirit" of the cap. It was like tax loopholes that people take advantage of - not against the rules but morally abhorrent. As per the punishment - Salford were paying these players throughout the whole season and hence through both the regular and middle 8s. The punishment should reflect that.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:56 pm
Bull Mania
International Star
Joined: May 25 2011 Posts: 7158
wrencat1873 wrote:I know that it seems logical but, would the operational rules within SL allow for a deduction to be split 15 + 5. If not, this in itself would be open to a legal challenge from Salford (or any other club found to be deliberately breaking the cap).
Think this would be a good idea. It obviously depends on the severity of the breach (but it's looking like the most severe in the sport in this country for a while) if Salford start the middle 8s on zero, the new system is a farce and clubs might as well cheat as they don't have any punishment for the only meaningful part of the season.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:38 pm
Andy Gilder
International Board Member
Joined: Apr 03 2003 Posts: 28186 Location: A world of my own ...
How excruciating was it watching Hemmings and Clarke discuss this after the game on Friday?
Neither of them appear to have any idea about the events leading up to the charge. Hemmings was even asking why if the breaches are two years old they weren't picked up under the live cap so Salford could have been punished then.
Comes to something when supposed professional broadcasters about the sport haven't even bothered doing any basic research into the situation but still feel qualified to discuss it.
"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:43 pm
Andy Gilder
International Board Member
Joined: Apr 03 2003 Posts: 28186 Location: A world of my own ...
Highlander wrote:is there something in the operational rules of the RFL that a club which takes legal action against the RFL has their membership of the RFL suspended for the duration of the legal action? Or is that just an urban myth?
Was part of the RFL bye-laws, not sure if it still is. Salford would lose their RFL membership and therefore the ability to play in any RFL run competitions or receive any central funding IIRC if they sued the RFL.
Koukash is coming out of this looking like a spoiled child. You get the impression he's not used - in his business life at least - to hearing people tell him what he can and cannot do.
"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:04 pm
Him
International Board Member
Joined: Jun 19 2002 Posts: 14970 Location: Campaigning for a deep attacking line
Andy Gilder wrote:How excruciating was it watching Hemmings and Clarke discuss this after the game on Friday?
Neither of them appear to have any idea about the events leading up to the charge. Hemmings was even asking why if the breaches are two years old they weren't picked up under the live cap so Salford could have been punished then.
Comes to something when supposed professional broadcasters about the sport haven't even bothered doing any basic research into the situation but still feel qualified to discuss it.
Absolutely. It was terrible. 2 people who are paid to understand the issues in our game don't even know the absolute basics of a big news story that had broken days beforehand and was reported by the organisation they work for.
Sadly it's not an isolated incident and exemplifies the shoddy and unprofessional nature of the Sky RL team at the moment.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:51 pm
Gronk!
Player Coach
Joined: Mar 30 2009 Posts: 5035
There was a rule that you can't sue the RFL, Cas straight up told fans that at a meeting during the franchise era. I assume that rule is still in place, most leagues around the world have similar clauses.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:47 pm
John Gilbert Reds
International Star
Joined: Mar 14 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: The Gilbert, Worsley
No complaints from me, if Koukash was stupid enough to sanction paying Tony Puletua £120k for two-years with only £80k going on the cap and another £40k being paid via his other company (EuroMachTech and then refuse to pay the second years £40k meaning all this became public knowledge via a tribunal) then we deserve to be punished accordingly.
My only issue is the "punished accordingly" as when we accidentally fielded 14 players in 2013 we were given a £10k fine whereas previously St Helens had done the same and were only given £100 fine. Therefore, despite a precedent of previous point deductions against clubs who have been found guilty I am a little worried Salford's punishment will be far greater, for what reason I don't know.
Salford Red Devils RLFC.
Gotcha wrote:Salford won't win Super League in my lifetime. Even saying in jest they would sounds stupid.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:52 pm
bren2k
Club Coach
Joined: Mar 24 2010 Posts: 15521 Location: Ossett
John Gilbert Reds wrote:Therefore, despite a precedent of previous point deductions against clubs who have been found guilty I am a little worried Salford's punishment will be far greater, for what reason I don't know.
It's hardly a precedent - the previous breaches were nothing like as egregious as this one is alleged to be; if indeed there is only one, which seems unlikely.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:34 pm
John Gilbert Reds
International Star
Joined: Mar 14 2013 Posts: 2666 Location: The Gilbert, Worsley
bren2k wrote:It's hardly a precedent - the previous breaches were nothing like as egregious as this one is alleged to be; if indeed there is only one, which seems unlikely.
I don't understand. Wigan breached the cap by £222,000 in 2007, it was the biggest breach in Super League history. They were given a 4 points deduction, surely a precedent has been set. Salford are being charged with an alleged breach (or breaches) totalling (best case) £40k and (worst case) £80k. When I say best and worst case, I am unsure whether they can use 2015 against us as the whole reason behind Tony Puletua's very public fued and subsequent tribunal was due to non-payment.
Whether or not one seems unlikely or not, there is only evidence to suggest at this moment in time there is. Unless other players come forward with appropriate evidence, which I doubt as HMRC would jump straight on them, then we'll never know.
Salford Red Devils RLFC.
Gotcha wrote:Salford won't win Super League in my lifetime. Even saying in jest they would sounds stupid.
Post subject: Re: Salford Charged with Salary Cap Breach
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:44 pm
Andy Gilder
International Board Member
Joined: Apr 03 2003 Posts: 28186 Location: A world of my own ...
John Gilbert Reds wrote:I don't understand. Wigan breached the cap by £222,000 in 2007, it was the biggest breach in Super League history.
Wigan breached the cap with what they thought was a clever way around it, forestalling payments within a contract. They were also perfectly up front about what they had done. Also, none of the Wigan directors had stood up a couple of years earlier and boasted that they would break the salary cap.
What Salford have done is equivalent to Melbourne's cheating in the NRL. Had Puletua not taken the club to an employment tribunal, the payments from the third party would not have become a matter of public record. Given Koukash's previous statements on the matter, it's hard to argue that this wasn't a deliberate and calculated attempt to defraud the live cap by hiding third payments from a related company.
Comparing Wigan and Salford's (alleged) breaches of the cap is like comparing Greg Eden to Billy Slater. They're the same in some ways, but in other important ones they are massively different.
"As you travel through life don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" - George Carlin
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