Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 31967 Location: The Corridor of Uncertainty
But haven't we now got out of "ever closer union" so it shouldn't be an issue?
The "out" group seem to be basing it all on an argument based around "well they'd still want our stuff so it won't be a problem" which to me seems to be incredibly simplistic. Chris Grayling was trumpeting that line over and over again this morning on R4. I fear it won't be half as simple as he thinks. His record as Justice Secretary shows he's not exactly got a good track record for attention to detail.
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
Joined: Oct 26 2005 Posts: 3829 Location: In the seaside town ...that they forgot to bomb
One of the problems the “In” camp have is, every time they bring up a scenario of post Brexit they are accused of scaremongering, whereas the “Out” camp can only offer a utopian theory.
In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats! They're eating the pets!
Mugwump wrote:This is rich coming from someone whose entire contribution to this site is the equivalent of elevator muzak. Seriously, I can't remember a single post you've ever made which stimulated my imagination. You are a monument to mediocrity. Well done!
I'm sorry, I didn't realise I was posting on RLFans just for your enjoyment. I don't need to stimulate your already overactive imagination along with the hefty dose of arrogance that dribbles off any replies that shart out of your general direction. You seem to be solely stimulated by fantastical whims with a pseudo-intellectual insecurity parading as confidence. I'm quite happy that you find me a monument to mediocrity given that the alternative is having anything in common with someone so horrifically lob-sided and self-important.
Good work!
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Joined: Jul 22 2012 Posts: 6848 Location: Hill Valley
Cronus wrote:Well, I spent 2 very long days at the Northern Powerhouse Conference in Manchester on Thursday & Friday, alongside a distinguished selection of business 'leaders' and a few politicians. Not all from the North, it should be noted - in fact, the spread was hugely varied.
This discussion came up many times and people were surprisingly willing to offer their opinion. Almost without fail, the verdict I heard was 'out'. Many of the reasons have already been offered in this thread so I won't repeat them, but needless to say the feeling is the EU has become a restraint and a burden, and a costly one at that. There's very little the EU brings us economically we can't achieve alone.
I'll be voting out. The EU is a rapidly failing project. Yes, freer trade benefits us all, but this idealistic idiocy of 'ever closer union' and open borders is a potty and dangerous concept, especially when those who dreamed it up have us by the 'nads and are too arrogant to listen to opposition to their
I work with many Germans and have spent plenty of time in Germany in the last few years. Merkel's popularity has crashed and if you don't think the immigration situation is out of hand - try travelling by rail in Germany. You'll soon see first hand.
Fully agree. All the 'IN' campaign as we know is built around the fear of the leap into the unknown blah blah but there is nothing else that points to any improvements down the line on all the main issues people are fed up with, infact they will likely get worse if we vote to stay in we will become even bigger lap dogs to Merkel and her cronies. whereas i see many positives for coming out even if we have to take some short term hits we will come out better for it in the future.That is my belief anyway.
The Devil's Advocate wrote:One of the problems the “In” camp have is, every time they bring up a scenario of post Brexit they are accused of scaremongering, whereas the “Out” camp can only offer a utopian theory.
True. Whilst I haven't read a truly compelling argument as to why we should leave, I've not seen one for why we should stay either.
It's scary to think that the general population have been trusted to vote on such an issue. There's no precedent to cite, no real idea on what will happen if we go (either pros or cons), the true benefits of remaining in etc.
Like the Scottish Referendum, with there being so many unknowns in the mix, the utopian 'out' versus the scaremongering 'in', for the majority of voters it'll come down to their own ideology - to be part of something or to be 'independent'.
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King Street Cat wrote:I disagree. Do you really think the general population would have been trusted with the vote if it was such a big deal?
Well, we get to vote on who runs the country, which is a pretty big deal.
I get your point though, maybe it isn't a big deal and whichever way the vote goes life wont change for most of us.
But we don't know for certain, and that's my point. We've no idea on the ramifications, how it'll effect our daily lives, how much we'll be out of pocket or quids in etc, how big a deal it really is. I'd rather the people who were most informed, who had no vested interests either way, made the decision on our behalf based on what is truly best for the country. Basically, I'd like the politicians to do their jobs.
Cup Winners: 1914, 1982, 2005, 2016, 2017. Cup Runners-Up: 1908, 1909, 1910, 1922, 1923, 1959, 1960, 1980, 1983, 1985, 2008, 2013. League Champions: 1920, 1921, 1936, 1956, 1958, 1983. League Runners-Up: 1957, 1982, 1984, 2006.
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