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 Post subject: Re: Sam Burgess
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:09 pm 
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JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:John Wilkin reads poetry. John Wilkin is the most intelligent, cultured and articulate man playing in Super League. St. Helens and England should be proud of him.


He's a product of fine East Hull schooling.

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 Post subject: Re: Sam Burgess
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:41 pm 
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Ford is a complete and utter prick. Hopefully his actions will mean no more top RL players going anywhere near any club he's involved with and his career dies as quickly a death as his credibility and reputation.

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 Post subject: Re: Sam Burgess
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:30 pm 
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I don't like Ford targeting RL players, but to be fair Burgess has made him look an idiot by no doubt telling him he was going to stay with Bath right up until the last moment, leading to Ford making comments along those lines to the press (and possibly to Bath's owner as well), and by departing mid season when Ford has planned around having him in the team. Ford's comments come across as very bitter but I do understand them.

Similarly at first sight the Bath captain's actions in keeping Burgess away rather than a proper goodbye seem a bit childish, but in a team environment I think its quite understandable that you might not want the team's highest profile player coming in and saying "thanks for everything but this gig sucks so see you later".

I tend to think a lot of the hysteria in the RU media and amongst some ex-players and coaches is down to the fact that they simply cannot countenance that someone doesn't think RU vastly superior to RL and has the nerve to decide to leave as soon as he can.

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 Post subject: Re: Sam Burgess
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:42 pm 
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Judder Man wrote:I thought Wilkins analogy of the two codes was very good. Comparing Union to Chess (More technical, slower, specific roles) and League to Draughts (More Open play and faster).


I couldn't disagree more. The key thing about chess whilst in application it appears complex, the rules themselves are actually relatively simple and there's only limited technical structure: It's the combination of single moment simplicity into almost infinite options over time (with multiple moves) that creates true complexity, from human choices in this pretty unstructured environment. This is exactly like League, which is an options game rather than a routines/process game.

Union on the other hand has more in common with a highly complex, structured rules-based game like Dungeons & Dragons. The surface complexity and ongoing need for an outside reference or judgement as a result (the referee's interpretation of a myriad of technicalities) actually reduces the ability of the human actors to make choices, and create a complex hard-to-read outlook of future options.

Nobody would argue chess players are less intelligent than people who play Dungeons & Dragons. The same's true for League players - they need to be much more creative, planning moves multiple stages in advance, with multiple layers of options available at each stage. I wish people like Wilkin would make this point instead.






When Hull KR got promoted they said there was only room for one elite team in Hull... how right they were!

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 Post subject: Re: Sam Burgess
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:46 am 
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Re the draughts vs chess example, IIRC Poe made the case for draughts being the game for more intelligent people (The Murders in the Rue Morgue).

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 Post subject: Re: Sam Burgess
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:55 am 
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Him wrote:Ford is a complete and utter prick. Hopefully his actions will mean no more top RL players going anywhere near any club he's involved with and his career dies as quickly a death as his credibility and reputation.


Ford's reported comments would worry me if I were employing him. I guess he'll be safe while his son is playing though.

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 Post subject: Re: Sam Burgess
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:27 am 
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BrisbaneRhino wrote:I don't like Ford targeting RL players, but to be fair Burgess has made him look an idiot by no doubt telling him he was going to stay with Bath right up until the last moment, leading to Ford making comments along those lines to the press (and possibly to Bath's owner as well), and by departing mid season when Ford has planned around having him in the team. Ford's comments come across as very bitter but I do understand them.


I agree with that, especially the bit about Bath's owner, who Ford had no doubt re-assured Sam would say. But from all I've heard, rather than read, Burgess discussed his contract extension before the WC but didn't then speak to Ford until after when he had made up his mind.






“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22
"It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21

A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.

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 Post subject: Re: Sam Burgess
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:49 am 
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Mike Ford; "yeah well i didn't like her anyway, she's not even that good looking, if she doesn't want to go out with me anymore then more fool her, it's her that's missing out!"

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 Post subject: Re: Sam Burgess
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:53 am 
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BuckleyStreetWire wrote:Mike Ford; "yeah well i didn't like her anyway, she's not even that good looking, if she doesn't want to go out with me anymore then more fool her, it's her that's missing out!"

You missed out the bit where Ford calls Burgess a fat slag and then stalks him on Facebook liking pictures of him at Souths.

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 Post subject: Re: Sam Burgess
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:17 am 
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King Street Cat wrote:Still think Sam would have been well suited to the Number 8 position.

I agree. But it would have taken him until the end of his contract to learn it.






Ealing here we come, onwards and downwards.

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