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 Post subject: Re: Homegrown numbers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:08 pm 
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Mrs Barista wrote:More likely scenario is that some clubs have been paying lip service to providing a genuine pathway to first team rugby for years and are heaving a big sigh of relief at being off the hook now and can give up the pretence.


:lol:






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 Post subject: Re: Homegrown numbers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:07 pm 
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Magic Superbeetle wrote:Sigh.

Any player who is deregistered can be registered by another club. There is no need to have a contract of employment for a club to register the player (as is the case for first refusals) - so if any club chooses to deregister a player, they risk owing a transfer fee to another club for their own player.

Further to this, due to insurance, a deregistered player is not allowed to train or be associated with any club training sessions, and is a common break clause in a standard SL contract.

Simply put, you can't do this.


Sigh?! :D

A contracted player remains contracted even when de-registered seemed to be the consensus following Mason-Dobson. Others leapt to the same conclusion as you, and suggested Dobson was free to move. And even if he had been, risk can be managed. The insurance thing - maybe, but actually, why would that be the case? I could undersatnd it more for uncontracted players. Registration is just a RFL thing, after all. And it doesn't matter for injured players anyway. Also doesn't sound like the hardest rule to dance around.

Simply put, I could be wrong. I often am. But that isn't a very compelling argument to be prefacing with a 'sigh'.

I keep meaning to suggest somebody asks about it at a fans forum.






'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.

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 Post subject: Re: Homegrown numbers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Mrs Barista wrote:No offence but the administration of the Machiavellian system and audit thereof seems way too complicated and time-consuming to realistically be going on extensively. More likely scenario is that some clubs have been paying lip service to providing a genuine pathway to first team rugby for years and are heaving a big sigh of relief at being off the hook now and can give up the pretence.


I could do it with a spreadsheet. And i'm not even all that good with spreadshhets. I think most clubs could afford my fees, for the 1 hour a week it'd take. Especially the wealthier clubs stretching the cap.

I kind of feel that the player pathway is generally inefficient. That it requires rules and appeals to better nature suggests the same. If it was in every clubs' self interest other incentives wouldn't be necessary.






'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.

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 Post subject: Re: Homegrown numbers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:38 pm 
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Mild Rover wrote:Sigh?! :D

A contracted player remains contracted even when de-registered seemed to be the consensus following Mason-Dobson. Others leapt to the same conclusion as you, and suggested Dobson was free to move. And even if he had been, risk can be managed. The insurance thing - maybe, but actually, why would that be the case? I could undersatnd it more for uncontracted players. Registration is just a RFL thing, after all. And it doesn't matter for injured players anyway. Also doesn't sound like the hardest rule to dance around.

Simply put, I could be wrong. I often am. But that isn't a very compelling argument to be prefacing with a 'sigh'.

I keep meaning to suggest somebody asks about it at a fans forum.


I'm just constantly amazed at the new and complicated ways people fit rumours around facts!

a) I never said they would be free to move clubs. I said they could be registered by another club. Clubs can hold the registration of players even without a playing contract.

b) RFL registration is a requirement for any player who wishes to train. This is true for virtually every sport (and kids playing for amateur clubs with BARLA). If your car gets hit by an uninsured driver, its a big headache. The same applies to the rugby pitch. The way around this is to simply not allow anyone not registered to step near anywhere they could do some damage. The registration also means every player has agreed to play by the rules of the sport. If this wasn't the case, the disciplinary panel would have no power.

c) injured players would still use, for example, rehab facilities at the club, there by requiring registration.






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 Post subject: Re: Homegrown numbers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:02 pm 
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Mrs Barista wrote:It does sound too complicated to be administered and checked effectively. I'm probably being thick (no change there) but simply put do you expect there to be any formal requirements for clubs to have homegrown (club) players in their squad in future once all rule changes are enacted?


And yes, I have seen absolutely nothing about these rules being changed so I expect there to be a requirement of 8 homegrown members of any SL squad - the same as this year, with a definition of homegrown consistent with the marquee rule.

That being said, it's a brave man who tries to second guess the RFL :lol:






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 Post subject: Re: Homegrown numbers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 4:59 pm 
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Mild Rover wrote:I could do it with a spreadsheet. And i'm not even all that good with spreadshhets. I think most clubs could afford my fees, for the 1 hour a week it'd take. Especially the wealthier clubs stretching the cap.

I kind of feel that the player pathway is generally inefficient. That it requires rules and appeals to better nature suggests the same. If it was in every clubs' self interest other incentives wouldn't be necessary.

If it was shown to be the case, I can't think it would go down that well though..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/georgeriley/ ... on_sa.html

Wouldn't you need more than a spreadsheet, surely you'd have to raise formal paperwork for each registration/de-registration? Administrators at clubs and the RFL audit department do have previous for, er, inadequacies (obviously I include FC in that) :lol:
Mild Rover wrote:I could do it with a spreadsheet. And i'm not even all that good with spreadshhets. I think most clubs could afford my fees, for the 1 hour a week it'd take. Especially the wealthier clubs stretching the cap.

I kind of feel that the player pathway is generally inefficient. That it requires rules and appeals to better nature suggests the same. If it was in every clubs' self interest other incentives wouldn't be necessary.

If it was shown to be the case, I can't think it would go down that well though..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/georgeriley/ ... on_sa.html

Wouldn't you need more than a spreadsheet, surely you'd have to raise formal paperwork for each registration/de-registration? Administrators at clubs and the RFL audit department do have previous for, er, inadequacies (obviously I include FC in that) :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Homegrown numbers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:03 pm 
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Magic Superbeetle wrote:And yes, I have seen absolutely nothing about these rules being changed so I expect there to be a requirement of 8 homegrown members of any SL squad - the same as this year, with a definition of homegrown consistent with the marquee rule.

That being said, it's a brave man who tries to second guess the RFL :lol:


Thicky McThick here. What's that definition? Is it easier or more difficult to be classed as homegrown using the marquee definition?

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 Post subject: Re: Homegrown numbers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:19 pm 
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Magic Superbeetle wrote:I'm just constantly amazed at the new and complicated ways people fit rumours around facts!

a) I never said they would be free to move clubs. I said they could be registered by another club. Clubs can hold the registration of players even without a playing contract.

b) RFL registration is a requirement for any player who wishes to train. This is true for virtually every sport (and kids playing for amateur clubs with BARLA). If your car gets hit by an uninsured driver, its a big headache. The same applies to the rugby pitch. The way around this is to simply not allow anyone not registered to step near anywhere they could do some damage. The registration also means every player has agreed to play by the rules of the sport. If this wasn't the case, the disciplinary panel would have no power.

c) injured players would still use, for example, rehab facilities at the club, there by requiring registration.


Yes, but

a) It really isn't that complicated

b) Players are often de-registered but hang around the clubs. e.g. Campese with us this year. Quite a lot of RFL rules are more 'guidelines'. See also 'anti-tampering deadline'.

c) The insurance thing fair enough, but I don't see why you'd have to be registered. You can get personal snowsports insurance. Lass I know has personal insurance for roller-derby. I don't see why clubs couldn't insure unregistered players. Driving is different - I appreciate you couldn't get insurance without a licence.






'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.

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 Post subject: Re: Homegrown numbers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Mild Rover wrote: Quite a lot of RFL rules are more 'guidelines'.

Well put. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Homegrown numbers
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:27 pm 
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Mrs Barista wrote:If it was shown to be the case, I can't think it would go down that well though..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/georgeriley/ ... on_sa.html

Wouldn't you need more than a spreadsheet, surely you'd have to raise formal paperwork for each registration/de-registration? Administrators at clubs and the RFL audit department do have previous for, er, inadequacies (obviously I include FC in that) :lol:


Alright, two hours a week. :)

A few sums, a couple of forms - I reckon Mike could manage that on his Remington.
Mrs Barista wrote:If it was shown to be the case, I can't think it would go down that well though..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/georgeriley/ ... on_sa.html

Wouldn't you need more than a spreadsheet, surely you'd have to raise formal paperwork for each registration/de-registration? Administrators at clubs and the RFL audit department do have previous for, er, inadequacies (obviously I include FC in that) :lol:


Alright, two hours a week. :)

A few sums, a couple of forms - I reckon Mike could manage that on his Remington.






'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.

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