Judder Man wrote:Wilkin couldn't understand the new ruling where if a wigan player knocks on and flaps there arms they can get a penalty reward, happened twice in the game, luckily only cost saints 2 points. Think he was moaning a lot about the offsides, especially the tap start on the 25 metre line by speed merchant Swift, he only managed 3 metres, when the wigan (faster than Swift) forwards travelled 7 metres to tackle him.
This derby game needed a strong referee, Hicks messed up a lot things last night for both sides which frustrates some players more than others.
I thought Hicks did pretty well last night. It's the biggest game he's ever refereed (according to Cummins in the commentary). Obviously there were mistakes but overall he did well IMO.
The only big call he got wrong was the forward pass. Live I thought it was forward too, it was only after a couple of replays I decided it was probably momentum and the wrong call, the red doesn't have the benefit of that.
Joined: Oct 08 2004 Posts: 7343 Location: East Surrey, England
South Coast RL wrote:I thought Hicks did pretty well last night. It's the biggest game he's ever refereed (according to Cummins in the commentary). Obviously there were mistakes but overall he did well IMO.
The only big call he got wrong was the forward pass. Live I thought it was forward too, it was only after a couple of replays I decided it was probably momentum and the wrong call, the red doesn't have the benefit of that.
I agree, don't think the ref did too much wrong. The forward pass was a tough decision because the ball clearly travelled forward relative to the ground which means he had to make a snap decision about whether the forward movement was due to momentum. Obviously the closeness of the game and the potential outcome of that call magnified its importance.
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Kelvin's Ferret wrote:I agree, don't think the ref did too much wrong. The forward pass was a tough decision because the ball clearly travelled forward relative to the ground which means he had to make a snap decision about whether the forward movement was due to momentum. Obviously the closeness of the game and the potential outcome of that call magnified its importance.
It was almost a textbook example of what's come to be known as "the momentum rule". Being 90 degrees on to the camera means it could be used in all future momentum threads on RLFans to demonstrate the concept.
Shame Hicks got that call wrong, because I thought he mostly had a very good game. But I agree that it's a tough one at full speed after 70 minutes of a game like that, and ultimately it didn't affect the result, so no harm done.
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Kelvin's Ferret wrote:I agree, don't think the ref did too much wrong. The forward pass was a tough decision because the ball clearly travelled forward relative to the ground which means he had to make a snap decision about whether the forward movement was due to momentum. Obviously the closeness of the game and the potential outcome of that call magnified its importance.
I don't agree with that at all. I had a similar angle to the referee and it was very clear it was never a forward pass. It was a truly shocking piece of officiating. Quite clear in plain sight that it left the hands in the right direction.
His general control of the play was farcical. Wigan were obviously offisde an awful lot of the time and there were times where O'Loughlin in particular was stood two yards in front of him and directly in his line of sight and he still didn't call anything. Saints are a far more disciplined side than Wigan, but there were some blatant offsides ignored that way as well, particularly a couple when Percival cleaned out Wigan players after setting off before the ball carrier had even stood up. Flopping from both sides was rampant, as was moving off the mark. Although a plague that's swept through SL in general, he did nothing at all to prevent it, meaning players were often getting up and going around the tacklers to play the ball.
His control of the flare ups was also a concern, he dealt with them by not dealing with them. It kind of worked because the players were disciplined enough to not continue it after half time. Wigan's game management was also made very easy by his weakness. Every drop out, scrum and penalty was met with a refusal to play and a delay of two minutes while we waited for Wigan to get their breath back. Worse was his complete and utter refusal to make a decision on his own. I've never seen referees ignoring correct and confident calls from the touch judge and asking for help from the video referee. It happened on scrums, drop outs, dropped balls and every try decision involving Saints bar Swift's try. Ironically the one time he refused to use the video referee he got the call wrong when he gave the penalty against Roby.
Refereeing in Rugby League is a difficult job. There are multiple rule breaches on almost every single play. You can't penalise them all or it would destroy the game. But you've got to confidently penalise when they are affecting the game. This is where Super League referees on the whole are lacking. They will pull players up for irrelevant technical breaches then ignore consistent and deliberate offsides. They are not sufficiently confident and don't have enough presence or personality to command respect from the players. This is why when you watch the NRL it appears faster, more controlled and more professional. When you watch Super League it's visibly sloppy.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 9721 Location: Cougarville
Saddened! wrote:I don't agree with that at all. I had a similar angle to the referee and it was very clear it was never a forward pass. It was a truly shocking piece of officiating. Quite clear in plain sight that it left the hands in the right direction.
His general control of the play was farcical. Wigan were obviously offisde an awful lot of the time and there were times where O'Loughlin in particular was stood two yards in front of him and directly in his line of sight and he still didn't call anything. Saints are a far more disciplined side than Wigan, but there were some blatant offsides ignored that way as well, particularly a couple when Percival cleaned out Wigan players after setting off before the ball carrier had even stood up. Flopping from both sides was rampant, as was moving off the mark. Although a plague that's swept through SL in general, he did nothing at all to prevent it, meaning players were often getting up and going around the tacklers to play the ball.
His control of the flare ups was also a concern, he dealt with them by not dealing with them. It kind of worked because the players were disciplined enough to not continue it after half time. Wigan's game management was also made very easy by his weakness. Every drop out, scrum and penalty was met with a refusal to play and a delay of two minutes while we waited for Wigan to get their breath back. Worse was his complete and utter refusal to make a decision on his own. I've never seen referees ignoring correct and confident calls from the touch judge and asking for help from the video referee. It happened on scrums, drop outs, dropped balls and every try decision involving Saints bar Swift's try. Ironically the one time he refused to use the video referee he got the call wrong when he gave the penalty against Roby.
Refereeing in Rugby League is a difficult job. There are multiple rule breaches on almost every single play. You can't penalise them all or it would destroy the game. But you've got to confidently penalise when they are affecting the game. This is where Super League referees on the whole are lacking. They will pull players up for irrelevant technical breaches then ignore consistent and deliberate offsides. They are not sufficiently confident and don't have enough presence or personality to command respect from the players. This is why when you watch the NRL it appears faster, more controlled and more professional. When you watch Super League it's visibly sloppy.
So none of that was down to the players in anyway what so ever.
Fine. After all the criticism of match officials, is their really a need for them?
If they are constantly wrong and they are really the only ones who know the rules, then the game would be better wouldn't it.
Seriously, the players are never ever the guilty party.
Based on this, and to ensure fairness, how about, after tackle, a roving microphone is given to a fan, somewhere on the ground and a decision made. It doesn't matter where in relation to the action they are because they will be right.
Taking the sentiments expressed to the next conclusion, if a player punches another player, then the touch judge should be sent off. Can't be the players.
Regarding "respect", it has to be earned, but the players have to earn it from the match officials not the other way round. Most,IMO, struggle with that, and even more so from the fans
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Joined: Oct 29 2007 Posts: 6767 Location: Now in Enemy Country
Leaguefan wrote:So none of that was down to the players in anyway what so ever.
Fine. After all the criticism of match officials, is their really a need for them?
If they are constantly wrong and they are really the only ones who know the rules, then the game would be better wouldn't it.
Seriously, the players are never ever the guilty party.
Based on this, and to ensure fairness, how about, after tackle, a roving microphone is given to a fan, somewhere on the ground and a decision made. It doesn't matter where in relation to the action they are because they will be right.
Taking the sentiments expressed to the next conclusion, if a player punches another player, then the touch judge should be sent off. Can't be the players.
Regarding "respect", it has to be earned, but the players have to earn it from the match officials not the other way round. Most,IMO, struggle with that, and even more so from the fans
This particular game needed a strong astute referee, I don't think Hicks was good enough but I think he just about got away with it as I,ve consistently seen him ref a lot worse. All coaches and players "play the ref" these days hence the reference to Wikin and others in flapping there arms and questioning every decision. Its far to easy now in the sky games to alleviate responsibility and decision making to refer it "upstairs" this creates weakness and will develop into the general nature of controlling a game.
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Saddened! wrote:I don't agree with that at all. I had a similar angle to the referee and it was very clear it was never a forward pass. It was a truly shocking piece of officiating. Quite clear in plain sight that it left the hands in the right direction.
His general control of the play was farcical. Wigan were obviously offisde an awful lot of the time and there were times where O'Loughlin in particular was stood two yards in front of him and directly in his line of sight and he still didn't call anything. Saints are a far more disciplined side than Wigan, but there were some blatant offsides ignored that way as well, particularly a couple when Percival cleaned out Wigan players after setting off before the ball carrier had even stood up. Flopping from both sides was rampant, as was moving off the mark. Although a plague that's swept through SL in general, he did nothing at all to prevent it, meaning players were often getting up and going around the tacklers to play the ball.
His control of the flare ups was also a concern, he dealt with them by not dealing with them. It kind of worked because the players were disciplined enough to not continue it after half time. Wigan's game management was also made very easy by his weakness. Every drop out, scrum and penalty was met with a refusal to play and a delay of two minutes while we waited for Wigan to get their breath back. Worse was his complete and utter refusal to make a decision on his own. I've never seen referees ignoring correct and confident calls from the touch judge and asking for help from the video referee. It happened on scrums, drop outs, dropped balls and every try decision involving Saints bar Swift's try. Ironically the one time he refused to use the video referee he got the call wrong when he gave the penalty against Roby.
Refereeing in Rugby League is a difficult job. There are multiple rule breaches on almost every single play. You can't penalise them all or it would destroy the game. But you've got to confidently penalise when they are affecting the game. This is where Super League referees on the whole are lacking. They will pull players up for irrelevant technical breaches then ignore consistent and deliberate offsides. They are not sufficiently confident and don't have enough presence or personality to command respect from the players. This is why when you watch the NRL it appears faster, more controlled and more professional. When you watch Super League it's visibly sloppy.
Oh dear!
That must be one of the most one eyed posts I've ever read. You are worse than the Wigan and Leeds lot.
Firstly the forward pass. On first look, ie live I thought it was forward too and can fully understand why Hicks blew up. Replays showed it to be a classic example of the so called momentum rule and it was the wrong call. Not a shocking piece of officiating just a mistake.
To read a St Helens fan complaining about any other team being offside is farcical. St Helens are by far the worst offenders this season. Percival for the intercept was so far offside he was level with the markers.
I thought he dealt with the flare ups quite well. There was nothing nasty in either of them and no need IMO to take any further action. I'm sure he was aware half time was so close and players had time to calm down. Ironically you are complaining about these when it was St Helens players rushing in that caused both of them so I assume you are suggesting 10 mins for Mose?
You should be on here bragging about St Helens' fantastic defensive effort and ability to take what little chances they had rather than whinge about an official who overall had a pretty decent game.
Joined: Apr 25 2002 Posts: 8138 Location: By The Cemetry Gates, Sintellins.
Wigan almost won by a penalty kick that was quite frankly from a blatent knock on. The forward pass decision looked wrong to considering he was perfectly placed.
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and they are really the only ones who know the rules, then the game would be better wouldn't it.
