Joined: Aug 30 2005 Posts: 3231 Location: in a cave
ComeOnYouUll wrote:
Diogenes wrote:We have already done better than last year by going from 11th in a league of 14 to 7th in a league of 12. I'm sure that making the top 8 was the minimum requirement set by Pearson to Radford so he has achieved that.
However last season was one of the worst I can remember in 30 years of supporting the club and I don't think we are any better now than when Radford took over.
If we get from 7th to 6th then you could argue that Radford does deserve to see out the final year of his contract but whether he stays longer than that should be subject to doing even better next year and I'm not sure we will.
However what happens (and what should happen) if we win no games or just one and slip down to 8th? It will be a terrible way to end the season and will not augur well for 2016.
Last year was arguably as bad as 2008 and 2009 although at least in 2008 we got to Wembley.
Some improvement this year and in terms of league form on a par with Gentle's 2013 squad (and better than all but one season of Agar's time in charge). We were unlucky to draw Leeds in the Cup this season and a favourable draw could easily have seen us in the semis this weekend.
Lee Radford will lead us into 2016 but I cannot see him taking us much higher in the league. As it stands next season looks like another battle to scrape into the top eight rather than an assault on the top four.
Pearson seems steadfast in his support of Radford and it seems to me that a contract extension is more likely than a change of coach anytime soon.
If we want to dine at the top table we should be capable of beating Leeds at home. When Pearson took over he talked about beating Leeds. And Leeds. And Leeds.
I agree that Radford will be our coach next season but like you I don't think we will improve much more with him at the helm.
First there was wisdom Then there was knowledge Now there is only information
Been promised Jam tomorrow for that long we have realised tomorrow never comes. Think the glory that was the KC Stadium has now become our millstone around our necks. We sold the Boulevard for £280,000 less than Rovers got for the old Craven Park nearly 25 years earlier and it seems no caveats on the sale. We need to build around the spine of the team with a younger replacement for Price [ HTW not be ready for another 2 years ] Pearson will be disappointed come pass sales as he wants every one to BUY in to him but thinks nothing of the supporters views. Me been going since 1950 but not going to get a pass next year ,roll up when I want and if not satisfied not bother . Pearson does not get it merging the youth teams this in the long run will loose future support. The games going backwards the RL can't or don't want to see what the fans see the bending over for certain teams on disciplinary matters.
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29811 Location: West Yorkshire
Lang Park wrote:Thank you for starting what is an excellent thread containing a lot of heartfelt and well written posts.
My own assessment of the situation is that AP enjoyed what was a modicum of success in his first spell at city (though it could be argued that it was through trial and error). The cash made from that was largely Peter Wilkinson's, and AP saw Hull FC as a chance to repeat the trick but with himself as the sole beneficiary.
Unfortunately for him he didn't do enough due diligence into what was needed to succeed in RL, and as a consequence overpaid for the club and had been playing catch-up ever since.
As you allude to he's wasted hundreds of thousands on big names and other such luxuries, when he would have been better spending it on solid foundations the club could have been built on for the next 10 years.
Always good at talking, he's wasted a long honeymoon period by consistently over promising and under delivering and now faces the fact that all his spending has brought little if any improvement from when he bought the club.
I agree totally that we will now be chasing the crowds down, lower investment=poorer performances=lower crowds=lower investment etc etc.
I think the watershed moment for you was the Leeds Cup game wasn't it? I recall you said it was "sobering stuff".
Where do we go from here, who knows. I disagree with the school of thought that says we need a rich benefactor though. What we need is someone to take on the club who knows the game and has contacts that can deliver value for money. A coach who can take some rough diamonds and make them into a glittering necklace.
Anyone know somebody who fits the bill?
I think the point on the Leeds game is key. Our fairytale cup run in 2005 probably helped create an unrealistic sense of possibility in the context of today's competition. We went through 2006 marshalled superbly by Cooke and Horne at the top of their respective games but in the following decade IMO the financing and infrastructures at the top 3 (and maybe Warrington) have stepped on to the extent of being currently unassailable. Sure, if we were more successful over time we'd leverage better value from the cap. But the collective cost that we can afford to spend on first team and academy and coaching staff is dwarfed by what Wigan/Leeds/Saints can via both materially higher gates, more control over stadium income, and wealthier, RL-devotee boards.
I buy in part the argument that investing Pritchard's (for the sake of argument) salary into coaching would help somewhat, but to me it's a bit like re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. The total income of the club is simply not enough to compete against the top 3 consistently as exemplified in the Leeds game when they had 6 out.
In this context, maybe 7th isn't that catastrophic, but simply a reflection of where we are and can expect (or hope, if reduced pass sales force first team cuts) to be.
The communication with fans from the club needs to treat us a little less patronisingly IMO. Gung-ho promises of Top 4 are pointless now. Some measured acknowledgement of mistakes made and re-calibrating our stated ambition would IMO engage fans more effectively than repeated bluster and borderline nonsense. We're grown up enough to face the truth. The top 3 have huge competitive advantage which we can't match at the moment. Let's have a bottom-up plan for recovery that's believable and medium term.
brilliant thread this!! with many well thought out,reasoned intelligent posts. I am hoping adam pearson will read them and really take into account these heartfelt opinions of people who at the end of the day just want our club to be the best it can be.I of course wont walk away as the "habit "has been with me for almost 60yrs now so I cant kick it !!?
carl_spackler wrote:I agree, it's very close. When we've been good this year, we've been better than in 2013, but in 2013 we were better at getting over the line in the close ones. So overall, we've not made any (detectable) progress, but we've apparently spent a further fortune doing it. It just seems like so much good money being thrown after bad and still being spent unwisely
What do you define as a close one? Because in 2013 we managed to win 4 games by less than 10 points, that included the non event game away at Wigan after the Cup Final. Which is also the same number of games we've won by the same margin this year.
When Gentle arrived he said that the one thing he wanted to do was narrow the gap between our best and worse performances. IMO it's been Radford that has achieved that this year.
Some great points made on this thread , Maybe it's time to see the club take out another fan survey . I could go a little way to re connect with the supporters .
Joined: Jul 31 2003 Posts: 36786 Location: Leafy Worcester, home of the Black Pear
Drew peacock wrote:Lots of passionate posts on here and a great thread,for a start lee radford has taken us backwards
Actually that's open to debate. Last year was a definite backward step but this season has been on a par with Gentle's last season in charge and could - only could, mind - end up being better in terms of league position. Of course we have a better squad now, at least in key positions.
Hold on to me baby, his bony hands will do you no harm It said in the cards, we lost our souls to the Nameless One
Joined: Oct 19 2003 Posts: 17898 Location: Packed like sardines, in a tin
B0NES wrote:Some great points made on this thread , Maybe it's time to see the club take out another fan survey . I could go a little way to re connect with the supporters .
*1865* wrote:What do you define as a close one? Because in 2013 we managed to win 4 games by less than 10 points, that included the non event game away at Wigan after the Cup Final. Which is also the same number of games we've won by the same margin this year.
When Gentle arrived he said that the one thing he wanted to do was narrow the gap between our best and worse performances. IMO it's been Radford that has achieved that this year.
you mean like last week against Wigan? I wish people would stop having a pop at Gentle.Overall he was doing a good job.He had recognised he made a mistake going for a smaller mobile pack and started to rectify that with the signing of Paea. He also had a lot of bad luck with player injuries yet we still finished sixth. You may say some of the signings McRae/Gentle made cost the club money but the Wembley appearance put a lot of money back into the club which people conveniently forget. The interesting thing about this thread is the number of posters who are at last seeing the limitations of Radford and feel money would be better spent on trying to attract a quality coach to the club. I just think Pearson has lost the plot.if he thinks the signing of Pritchard will but bums on seats he is sadly mistaken. maybe it will take pass sales to decline to around five thousand for the penny to drop.
Joined: Oct 19 2003 Posts: 17898 Location: Packed like sardines, in a tin
oud3pstander wrote:Been promised Jam tomorrow for that long we have realised tomorrow never comes.
I said on Twitter the other day that if AP sets out that we will get jam tomorrow (with the usual "no guarantees" caveat), I'd be happy to wait if there was loads of jam and it lasted a while. I'm realistic enough to know that success isn't round the corner, so no more of this Top 4 stuff, just a sensible approach that takes the fans with him.
Mrs B's suggestion of an AP "State of the Nation" speech (with New Order soundtrack) is a must.
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