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 Post subject: Re: just wondering ?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:23 am 
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*1865* wrote:Why? There's been two examples quoted so far.


See my post. One is not an example, one is, but is the notable example I alluded to.

I think that there's a bit of tarring with one brush going on. One stubborn lunatic does not constitute 'some fans' IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: just wondering ?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:25 am 
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C for Cuckoo wrote:Typical Hull FC: blame the fans when we are losing but can't give credit to the boo boys when we win.

I think what has happened is that the coaching staff have finally found a way to get us playing better. They have been watching the same dross as we have but haven't managed to do anything about it. Now they have. It wasn't the threat of a petition that suddenly made Radford realize that we were losing games. Its just that what he was doing wasn't working.

Now, fingers crossed that we continue to show improvements. I can't help but feel that our new confidence is fragile.

Think we'll find out Friday night, usually good game against saints at the KC, might even suggest we've turned a corner if we win! Personally think the recent change in play is down to more than Radford realising what he was doing wasn't working! Surely wouldn't of taken this long to work that out. Whatever it is, long may it continue

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 Post subject: Re: just wondering ?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:37 am 
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C for Cuckoo wrote:Typical Hull FC: blame the fans when we are losing but can't give credit to the boo boys when we win.


Don't agree in the main. Always exceptions, but mostly I think people will be happy if they see the team playing the way we want, and will openly say as much if they are confident it is something that will continue.

C for Cuckoo wrote:I think what has happened is that the coaching staff have finally found a way to get us playing better. They have been watching the same dross as we have but haven't managed to do anything about it. Now they have. It wasn't the threat of a petition that suddenly made Radford realize that we were losing games. Its just that what he was doing wasn't working.

Now, fingers crossed that we continue to show improvements. I can't help but feel that our new confidence is fragile.


I do agree with that.

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 Post subject: Re: just wondering ?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:21 am 
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carl_spackler wrote:Nowhere does that claim that the first point influenced the other. In fact in the original post in full, it clearly identifies a team meeting as the likely reason, not fan pressure.
I think it implies it quite strongly, tbh.

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 Post subject: Re: just wondering ?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:36 am 
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carl_spackler wrote:Nowhere does that claim that the first point influenced the other. In fact in the original post in full, it clearly identifies a team meeting as the likely reason, not fan pressure.

The original post was asking where the Radford critics are now that we've played well, in a goading manner possibly implying that those critics are/were wrong. It was the latest in a growing theme over the last 2 weeks seemingly wanting to have a go at the fans who are/were vocally unhappy with how we were playing. Robbo's post very sensibly pointed out the bizarre (non-)logic of questioning why those fans are no longer complaining now that things have changed and implying that change and improvement happening is somehow proof that they were wrong.

It's very simple, those unhappy with how we've been playing have had nothing to be unhappy about for the last 2 weeks. This doesn't mean they were wrong prior to that, it in fact (with notable exceptions) means that they are being entirely fair and rational in their assessments and not stubbornly ripping in when it is not justified. The fact that there isn't instant gushing praise is merely because 2 games is a very small sample size to be convinced that it is not just another false dawn.


I agree on this, as I said in one of my posts we have had very dire rugby in the last 18 months and if we are brutally honest we were seeming to be going backwards in terms of performance and results. That is why fans myself included have questioned the Coach and quite rightly. Now it is pleasing to see that we have played well in the last 2 games and credit to the team as whole for that but 2 games does not prove we have turned a corner or can sustain it as we have seen it so many times before since the 2006 GF appearance.

That for me is why fans are vocal about the coaching and rightly questioning the sudden change of the last 2 games from the way we have played over the past 18months. I for one am not knocking it as it is a breath of fresh air and great to see but doubts are still there as to whether it can be sustained for the remainder of the season.

The changes could well be in part be because the fans are disgruntled and not attending, something that Pearson alluded too in a recent interview and he also stated IIRC that after the Huddersfield game everyone at the club had to take a look at themselves. So maybe he gave them all an honest appraisal of their performances to date and maybe shaken them all out of the comfort zone and they needed to change things, which they have.

Things have changed and rapidly and whilst Radford no doubt will have had input in that, the amount and speed of the changes can not just be down to him suddenly becoming the grand master in terms of coaching.

Whatever are the reasons for change then I for one am happy to see them but will reserve judgement until more than just a couple of games as we have been here way too many times to then see all the promise turn to nothing and face yet another transistional season.






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 Post subject: Re: just wondering ?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:46 am 
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*1865* wrote:I think it implies it quite strongly, tbh.


Then I think you should reread the quote in full:

Robbo4 wrote:We appear to have completely changed philosophy which is apparently on the back of a clear the air team meeting a few weeks ago. We are attacking with much more fluidity and offloads have suddenly returned. If this way of playing remains then Radford should be given some more time but the fact we have had to change how we play actually backs up what the Radford out Brigade have been saying.


Specifically attributing the change to a team meeting.

Robbo4 wrote:We play really boring uninspiring rugby so the fans get fed up and start to call for the coach to sort it out or go. The coach eventually appears to change philosophy with the game plan and we start to play some attractive rugby and get some results and apparently this means the fans were wrong to ever question the coach in the first place. I'll leave you to decide just how dumb that is.


Note eventually. There's been criticism and calls for his head for a fair while, I'm not sure how saying the coach eventually changed his philosophy is suggesting it's a direct reaction to fan unrest. If it was fan-inspired it would have been before now, IMO. The point is clearly how strange it is to suggest that fans were wrong to not be happy on the evidence that they have been given what they want for a couple of games and as a result have (in the main) stopped complaining.

Claiming to be right about something is not the same as trying to claim the credit for fixing it.

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 Post subject: Re: just wondering ?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:51 am 
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Chris71 wrote:Things have changed and rapidly and whilst Radford no doubt will have had input in that the amount and speed of the changes can not just be down to him syddenly becoming the grand master in terms of coaching.

This is where this argument falls down. Radford is hammered on here, even to the point of personal abuse (from some) and hailed as one of the worst coaches in recent history, we start to win games and he's only 'had an input' and 'it can't be that he's suddenly become a good coach'.
My take on it is that we've had a (much needed) overhaul in our halfbacks and finally have two of fairly decent quality. However, they've taken time to develop an understanding. This progress was hampered by Sneyd's injury.

On the subject of Sneyd, I think he's an off the cuff player that the players are only just getting used to playing with.

Radford was also hammered for saying things would improve once Ellis was back, but he constantly attracts 3 or 4 defenders, this creates space elsewhere making it easy for the halves. So he wasn't wrong, was he?

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 Post subject: Re: just wondering ?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:54 am 
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carl_spackler wrote:Then I think you should reread the quote in full:

Specifically attributing the change to a team meeting.

Note eventually. There's been criticism and calls for his head for a fair while, I'm not sure how saying the coach eventually changed his philosophy is suggesting it's a direct reaction to fan unrest. If it was fan-inspired it would have been before now, IMO. The point is clearly how strange it is to suggest that fans were wrong to not be happy on the evidence that they have been given what they want for a couple of games and as a result have (in the main) stopped complaining.

Claiming to be right about something is not the same as trying to claim the credit for fixing it.

Ok.

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 Post subject: Re: just wondering ?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:12 am 
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As we are in better form and playing some decent rugby how about we all stop tearing into the team, the coach and other fans?

At least until after Friday.






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 Post subject: Re: just wondering ?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 10:22 am 
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*1865* wrote:This is where this argument falls down. Radford is hammered on here, even to the point of personal abuse (from some) and hailed as one of the worst coaches in recent history, we start to win games and he's only 'had an input' and 'it can't be that he's suddenly become a good coach'.
My take on it is that we've had a (much needed) overhaul in our halfbacks and finally have two of fairly decent quality. However, they've taken time to develop an understanding. This progress was hampered by Sneyd's injury.

On the subject of Sneyd, I think he's an off the cuff player that the players are only just getting used to playing with.

Radford was also hammered for saying things would improve once Ellis was back, but he constantly attracts 3 or 4 defenders, this creates space elsewhere making it easy for the halves. So he wasn't wrong, was he?


So are you saying it is all down to Radford alone?

What I am saying is fans have rightly questioned whether he was the right man for the job based on the evidence presented every match for the past 18 months. Then all of a sudden after the Huddersfield game which seemed to call about a team meeting & Pearson stating he'd made it clear performances were not acceptable etc and everyone at to look at themselves we seem to have had a huge change in terms of the way we playing in the last 2 games compared to everyone before.
That change and the speed can not just be done to one factor but a number of them. The fact we have seen more off loads/promoting the ball, dummy runners, angled runners and support play in the Cas game alone than we have all season points to more than just the coaching factor.

Whatever it is that has brought about the change then great and credit to everyone concerned but don't expect the disgruntled fans to suddenly become happy clappers overnight as we have had far too many false dawns.

Lets see in 5 more games whether we have been able to maintain a decent level of play and consistency






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