FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Sin Bin The General Election Thread



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 484 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46 ... 49  Next

How are you planning to vote?
Conservative 25%  25%  [ 27 ]
Labour 37%  37%  [ 40 ]
Lib Dem 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
UKIP 9%  9%  [ 10 ]
Green 9%  9%  [ 10 ]
SNP 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
DUP 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Plaid Cymru 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Respect 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Sinn Féin 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
SDLP 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Other/Independent 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Undecided 6%  6%  [ 7 ]
Planning to abstain/can't be bothered/don't trust any of them 5%  5%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 108
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: The General Election Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 10:18 am 
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Dec 05 2001
Posts: 25122
Location: Aleph Green
BrisbaneRhino wrote:So who comes up with 'the issues'? And you'd be happy with a country that has the death penalty (just time the 'vote' just after a particularly nasty child murder for example)? Speaking of which, how long before paedophiles were executed? How would funding be decided within a sphere - e.g. health? I'd bet hardly anyone who hasn't either been affected or knows someone who has been affected would think of putting much money into mental health for example, let alone understand how best to use those funds. Etc etc.

The problems with the sort of model you suggest would be far, far worse than what we have now. Just check any theme trending on social media to see how mob rule by the masses would work in reality.


This is not true at all. Yes, a proportion of the electorate revert to such form. A very large one, too. But do YOU revert to mob behaviour at the first site of a paedophile story in the local paper? I know I don't. I know my friends don't.

I leave you to figure out why this is the case (clue: it's NOT the one which states you're so much smarter than they are). ;)

Quote:The only way that could happen is to have the 'bureacracy' actively engage in setting policy directions - i.e. you'd have a completely unelected elite running the country in no time at all.


I really don't see how this is a problem which can't be overcome.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The General Election Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 11:14 am 
Player Coach
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Nov 08 2005
Posts: 10530
Location: Leeds
It's an interesting idea. It would force people become more informed on the issues that they're voting on, and would do away with a media industry that is no longer fit for purpose.

I'd need more details though, for example, whom would appoint and run the civil service? How would be be represented in the European Parliament, the UN etc? Would they have to adopt the same method?






King Monkey wrote:Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.

At least he'd lose his virginity.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The General Election Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 11:26 am 
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Dec 05 2001
Posts: 25122
Location: Aleph Green
Charlie Sheen wrote:It's an interesting idea. It would force people become more informed on the issues that they're voting on, and would do away with a media industry that is no longer fit for purpose.

I'd need more details though, for example, whom would appoint and run the civil service?


Give me a chance ... I've only just finished sketching it out on the back of a fag packet! ;) Seriously, it would need a lot of thinking through. But it's not impossible. The important thing is there'd have to be a robust series of checks and balances. With enough smart people working on the task I'm sure we could accomplish something.

To be honest I'm open to ideas. We need new ideas today. The current system is just so hopelessly broken it's no longer funny.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The General Election Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 11:57 am 
Player Coach
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Nov 08 2005
Posts: 10530
Location: Leeds
Mugwump wrote:Give me a chance ... I've only just finished sketching it out on the back of a fag packet! ;) Seriously, it would need a lot of thinking through. But it's not impossible. The important thing is there'd have to be a robust series of checks and balances. With enough smart people working on the task I'm sure we could accomplish something.

To be honest I'm open to ideas. We need new ideas today. The current system is just so hopelessly broken it's no longer funny.


Did you write Ed Balls' economic manifesto as well? :D

But on the whole I'd agree with you, and I'd argue the problem doesn't just stop with our political system. There needs to be a shift in our paradigm regarding our politics, economy, and how we view the world in general. We seem to be collectively confined by the same dogma we have been for 200 years, and we wonder why so much of the world seems broken.






King Monkey wrote:Maybe a spell in prison would do Graham good.

At least he'd lose his virginity.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The General Election Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 12:57 pm 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds
Mugwump wrote:The whole idea of REPRESENTATION is an anachronism dating back centuries. It necessitates a class of people who once served a critical function in society which is now REDUNDANT in the 21st century. Think about it: back in days of yore when a trip down to London and back took the best part of a week on horseback one needed an individual to REPRESENT your interests along with the butcher's, the baker's and the candlestick maker's from the village.

But this is the information age. An age of instantaneous communication. There is no longer any NEED to keep financing the upkeep of these charlatans and crooks in parliament... <snip>


Good ideas, but I'll advocate once more with feeling, the very first, and possibly only thing that needs to happen with the current method of parliament is to remove the whips.

You can still keep your party's, MP's of a similar persuasion would still be able to gather and discuss issues and present a party manifesto to the public at election times and to their members every working day, but they would have to properly think policies through and convince 51% of 650 MP's (or wherever you place your majority vote) that their policies should be enacted or put into law.

There wouldn't be as much emphasis then on the party in majority because their majority could be lost, or it could be improved at every policy change, everything would depend on their ability to convince enough MP's to individually vote without pressure and retribution from within their own party, in fact I'd go a little further and suggest that any party pressure behind closed doors is made an illegal act as coercion or bribery is, and make the coerciee criminally responsible.

We'd end up with 650 representatives who can vote according to their personal beliefs, or according to their constituents desires and at that point we, the electorate, suddenly become players in the democracy for if a national or local policy grabs our attention then we can easily contact our representative to express our views, its very easy to do this now via the one system of email they all use and this could very simply include spot polls for opinions - it must also be possible given parliaments diary to publish in advance what debates and votes are due in the next month given that that is how parliament works anyway.

In our constituency we have an MP who is prepared to campaign on issues and has voted against his party on 10% of all votes in the last term, is very contactable and publishes his diary of activities every day - we're almost there with him - time to spread it out a bit further afield.

Get rid of the whips, thats all we need.






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The General Election Thread
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 1:20 pm 
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Dec 05 2001
Posts: 25122
Location: Aleph Green
Charlie Sheen wrote:Did you write Ed Balls' economic manifesto as well? :D


The only thing that I do know is that Ed Balls sure didn't. ;)

Quote:But on the whole I'd agree with you, and I'd argue the problem doesn't just stop with our political system. There needs to be a shift in our paradigm regarding our politics, economy, and how we view the world in general. We seem to be collectively confined by the same dogma we have been for 200 years, and we wonder why so much of the world seems broken.


The truth is there IS a paradigm shift taking place in politics and the economy. It's been underway since Nixon abolished the gold standard. American doomsday preppers (rightfully) take a lot of stick over their constant warnings that America is about to be invaded by "The New World Order" with NATO troops at the vanguard (presumably parachuting into towns like something out of the film, "Red Dawn").

But over the last two decades there has been significant progress toward what both George H.W. Bush and most recently Lord Rothschild openly admit as such.

As mentioned earlier - big business simply HATES state government. It is the one force with sufficient power and resources to place constraints on corporate expansion.

To prevent anything like what happened in the wake of the Great Depression when Franklin D. Roosevelt practically forced the giants of American industry to heel, the major banks and corporations have worked together (along with "business friendly" US presidents such as Reagan, Bush I & II, Clinton & Obama) to institute a global infrastructure of "trade agreements" (such as GATT, WTO, NAFTA and now TPP), each of which has further undermined and hollowed out the powers and freedoms of state government.

This is the reason nothing seems to change, no matter who we vote for.

Eventually the British government will end up something like today's GP. Thirty years ago the family GP wielded all manner of power and responsibility. Most GP surgeries boasted a host of supplementary services which a patient could access and GPs themselves were free to undertake pretty much anything up to and beyond minor surgical procedures.

Nowadays the family GP functions as no more than a facilitator (with the cheery reassurance that "you'll be fine"). Someone who kicks your problem upstairs to the relevant department in some hospital somewhere. As for his freedoms - about the only things a modern GP can do is lance a boil and syringe ears.

This is the future we face. A future in which we will retain national identity. But self-determination will amount to little more than a rhetorical admission that we possess such.

Of course - all the above is entirely provisional on infinite energy reserves. Should we suddenly find ourselves at the business end of "peak energy" then everything will become very complicated very quickly.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The General Election Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:48 am 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Dec 22 2001
Posts: 14395
Location: Chester
JerryChicken wrote:In our constituency we have an MP who is prepared to campaign on issues and has voted against his party on 10% of all votes in the last term, is very contactable and publishes his diary of activities every day - we're almost there with him - time to spread it out a bit further afield.


So he voted with the govt 90% of the time. :roll:

Our Tory ex-MP took our side against the local council when we campaigned against the introduction of charges for travel to remote special schools for post 16 year old disabled children but he didn't exactly stick the boot in and really go for it. Just paid lip service to our concerns really.

It's easy to appear to have principles. The odd bit of rebellion here or there but until MP's such as yours actually resign the whip the cynic in me says they are just playing a game.






Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20
Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The General Election Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:58 pm 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds
DaveO wrote:So he voted with the govt 90% of the time. :roll:

Our Tory ex-MP took our side against the local council when we campaigned against the introduction of charges for travel to remote special schools for post 16 year old disabled children but he didn't exactly stick the boot in and really go for it. Just paid lip service to our concerns really.

It's easy to appear to have principles. The odd bit of rebellion here or there but until MP's such as yours actually resign the whip the cynic in me says they are just playing a game.


To resign the whip is basically to break completely free of your party and stand as an independent, you'll certainly have to do that at the next election if you do.

There is nothing to say that my MP does not agree with his party and votes with them of his own accord, thats fine too, but banning the whip system would bring a whole new freedom to all votes and mean that a proposal would have to be pretty sound and reasonable in order to gain a majority - in the coming months we face all sorts of untold legislation and changes to rules and regulations that will be steamrollered through parliament by simple and crude bullying of Tory MPs - that is not a true democracy.






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The General Election Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 2:01 pm 
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Dec 05 2001
Posts: 25122
Location: Aleph Green
I remember when Shaun Woodward paid us a visit at work a couple of years ago. Owing to the fact that he once set foot in Northern Ireland his visit required reconnoitring by two members of Special Branch! They went through the list of employees, wanting to know their backgrounds, how long they'd been at the company etc.

Two weeks later he rolled up (late) with SIX BODYGUARDS - all of which were clearly and very visibly armed. I quipped that I thought Roman Abramovich had arrived and received daggers from the regional manager. ;)

God knows how much his (presumably) lifetime protection detail costs. I'm not convinced he demands one, anyway. IMO, if you're going to stick your neck out politically then you should be brave enough to deal with the consequences - personally.

A couple of weeks later I was talking to one of our customers who runs a major engineering company which refits maritime equipment. He was telling us about George Osborne living in his constituency where HS2 is about to cut the district in two. Apparently, Osborne brought down the wrath of the locals after he flogged his house before the decision was officially announced. He then failed to turn up for the town meeting discussing the project.

It's always dangerous to look back thinking things were better. But at least MPs 50 years ago made some attempt at PUBLIC SERVICE. Alec Douglas-Hume turned down a top job in the city to become Prime Minister because he felt he owed a debt of public service. These lot today would consider him a fool.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: The General Election Thread
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 3:06 pm 
Club Owner
International Star
User avatar

Joined: Nov 02 2003
Posts: 8627
Mugwump wrote:It's always dangerous to look back thinking things were better. But at least MPs 50 years ago made some attempt at PUBLIC SERVICE. Alec Douglas-Hume turned down a top job in the city to become Prime Minister because he felt he owed a debt of public service. These lot today would consider him a fool.


Sajid Javid left his £3m a year job to become an MP.

I am sure there literally hundreds of other MP's who have been, and could be earning more, in the private sector before becoming an MP.






Forever in Rented Accomodation

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 484 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46 ... 49  Next





It is currently Thu Nov 28, 2024 7:09 pm


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 61 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Thu Nov 28, 2024 7:09 pm
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
6m
Ground Improvements
Spookisback
225
18m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63288
19m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40822
20m
Film game
Boss Hog
5818
24m
Salary Cap Changes Blocked - 11 votes to 1
Dai Jones
17
26m
Co-Captains for 2025
Swoggy Loine
3
34m
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
224
38m
Shirt reveal coming soon
vastman
45
50m
Pre Season - 2025
Hasbag
202
50m
Getting a new side to gel
Highlander
8
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
59s
Salford
ratticusfinc
63
1m
Fixtures
BigTime
16
1m
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
LeythIg
7
1m
Former players
Wanderer
1332
1m
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
2m
Co-Captains for 2025
Swoggy Loine
3
2m
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
2m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2623
3m
Rumours and signings v9
apollosghost
28911
4m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40822
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Swoggy Loine
3
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
vastman
45
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington - Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
6m
Ground Improvements
Spookisback
225
18m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63288
19m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40822
20m
Film game
Boss Hog
5818
24m
Salary Cap Changes Blocked - 11 votes to 1
Dai Jones
17
26m
Co-Captains for 2025
Swoggy Loine
3
34m
2025 Recruitment
Bullseye
224
38m
Shirt reveal coming soon
vastman
45
50m
Pre Season - 2025
Hasbag
202
50m
Getting a new side to gel
Highlander
8
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
59s
Salford
ratticusfinc
63
1m
Fixtures
BigTime
16
1m
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
LeythIg
7
1m
Former players
Wanderer
1332
1m
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
2m
Co-Captains for 2025
Swoggy Loine
3
2m
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
2m
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2623
3m
Rumours and signings v9
apollosghost
28911
4m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40822
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Co-Captains for 2025
Swoggy Loine
3
TODAY
Cornwall has a new owner
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Callum Shaw
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad Numbers
phe13
4
TODAY
Rhinos squad numbers
Rixy
1
TODAY
Squad numbers
Warrior Wing
8
TODAY
Mat Crowther pre season update
Dunkirk Spir
1
TODAY
Mike Cooper podcast
rubber ducki
6
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
vastman
45
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.