No, its necessary because the member states cannot agree on a level at which to pitch VAT or to pitch a threshold below which its not applicable.

Have a read at some of the guidelines to the new legislation (which is now active), there is a working example of an Australian touring Europe who downloads an app for his mobile from a UK company whilst he is in Belgium - what rate of VAT should he be charged ?

His mobile is registered to a provider in Australia, he' is billed by his phone service provider for the download, he is an Australian citizen and non-EU B2B or B2C scenarios do not attract VAT, furthermore the app provider in the UK won't know where he is when he downloads unless the information is passed on to them by his phone provider in Australia.

What rate of VAT, if any, should he be billed ?

If a UK company makes a supply then it must charge VAT. Unless the buyer produces appropriate exemption papers. it may well be that this buyer would not have to pay UK VAT on his 79p app. He should get his accountant in Australia to open up a case and have a multi-national correspondence to establish who if anyone should get the 15p or so tax. Though I'm not sure the cost-benefit case is made out.

Thats the pre-Jan 1st situation IF you were above the VAT turnover threshold and registered with HMRC.

The new situation is a bit more complex, even for sole traders trading from their bedroom offices.

It's not, the guy downloads the app on paying his 79p and the seller accounts for the VAT element. Nobody knows or cares about anything else. It is of no interest to the bedroom trader whether the buyer is a foreign national, etc and would be wholly impractical and impossible for the trader to even attempt to ascertain this on a sale-by-sale basis. He'll just charge the default VAT (or his computer will) and that's that.

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:It's not, the guy downloads the app on paying his 79p and the seller accounts for the VAT element. Nobody knows or cares about anything else. It is of no interest to the bedroom trader whether the buyer is a foreign national, etc and would be wholly impractical and impossible for the trader to even attempt to ascertain this on a sale-by-sale basis. He'll just charge the default VAT (or his computer will) and that's that. You might want to read this tangled web of complete bollax and do a quick search for some of the advisory platforms that accountants have set up, as I said it applies to digital media at the moment, next year its supposed to apply to all media, Vince is still sitting on his hands. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers/vat-businesses-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers Or from a small business forum : http://www.smallbusiness.co.uk/financing-a-business/accounts-and-tax/2475862/eu-vat-changes-affecting-digital-content-and-eservice-sellers.thtml

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:It's not, the guy downloads the app on paying his 79p and the seller accounts for the VAT element. Nobody knows or cares about anything else. It is of no interest to the bedroom trader whether the buyer is a foreign national, etc and would be wholly impractical and impossible for the trader to even attempt to ascertain this on a sale-by-sale basis. He'll just charge the default VAT (or his computer will) and that's that. You might want to read this tangled web of complete bollax and do a quick search for some of the advisory platforms that accountants have set up, as I said it applies to digital media at the moment, next year its supposed to apply to all media, Vince is still sitting on his hands. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers/vat-businesses-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers Or from a small business forum : http://www.smallbusiness.co.uk/financing-a-business/accounts-and-tax/2475862/eu-vat-changes-affecting-digital-content-and-eservice-sellers.thtml

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:It's not, the guy downloads the app on paying his 79p and the seller accounts for the VAT element. Nobody knows or cares about anything else. It is of no interest to the bedroom trader whether the buyer is a foreign national, etc and would be wholly impractical and impossible for the trader to even attempt to ascertain this on a sale-by-sale basis. He'll just charge the default VAT (or his computer will) and that's that. Have a quick read of this blog. Heather Burns seems to have got it summed up pretty well

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:It's not, the guy downloads the app on paying his 79p and the seller accounts for the VAT element. Nobody knows or cares about anything else. It is of no interest to the bedroom trader whether the buyer is a foreign national, etc and would be wholly impractical and impossible for the trader to even attempt to ascertain this on a sale-by-sale basis. He'll just charge the default VAT (or his computer will) and that's that. Have a quick read of this blog. Heather Burns seems to have got it summed up pretty well

This us just another example of why the EU is dragging us all into an uncompetitive more. Small businesses general provide most employment growth but are disproportionately affected by regulation - not just tax but employment law, etc, etc which stifles growth and gives further advantage to big businesses. The EU is rapidly making its citizens poorer in a competitive world.

No, it's an indication of a less than useless Business Minister and a bunch of even more less than useless MEPs

How do you work that one out?

Vince Cable was aggressively lobbied about the potential implications to SMEs, he took absolutely no notice