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 Post subject: Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:18 pm 
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Mugwump wrote:So what are we saying here ... Greeks are ... erm ... pathologically corrupt? :shock:

'Oh the UKIP wagon is a-comin' down the street'

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 Post subject: Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:18 pm 
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Without the 'on', that doesn't scan.






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 Post subject: Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:23 pm 
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Stand-Offish wrote:Without the 'on', that doesn't scan.


:lol:

"Happy times are comin' for to stay - hey!"

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 Post subject: Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:46 pm 
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Mugwump wrote:So what are we saying here ... Greeks are ... erm ... pathologically corrupt? :shock:


No what I said was "Greece has a culture of tax avoidance and corruption spread across the population" - no mention of disease.

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 Post subject: Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:35 pm 
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Leaguefan wrote:Capitalism = Greed.
Capitalism = Something for nothing.
Capitalism can only survive with inflation and be a constant increasing upward spiral with increasing prices.
Capitalism can only work with "credit" i.e imaginary finance that just dosn't exist except as a concept/idea
Capitalism can never be "efficient" to lower costs and improve employees living standards, the desire is to increase profits for the few .
Shareholders are just like the people who go into the bookies. They take a gamble, but have rigged the rules in such a way that their losses, if any, are minimised.
Shareholders sit at home all day watching 40" plasma TV's or out playing and drinking, being subsidised by those who actually do the work.
Shareholders are like people on benefits, wanting something for nothing.
If businesses are making "excessive" profits, then either their prices are too high or they they are not paying the people who create the products enough.
At best it's a crazy system, but it "works" because the "educational system" ensures it works.
Like most, I can live and work within the current system, but that is not to say I condone the current system and cannot say it isn't in the best interest of human beings on the only planet we can all live on.
It's simply greed is the biggest motivator on the planet.
Caring about your fellow human beings? Nah that's some else's job.
We live in interesting times.


Wow.... and you are the one suggesting others do not understand the system!

Greed = greed. Which can be found in all walks of life , be it a capitalist, a worker, a communist or a union official. (the last 2 are really the same delete which is inappropriate :wink: )
Capitalism while by no means perfect is the system the great majority of the world prefers while other systems have failed badly or been
rejected.
Capitalism has produced most of the finest advances in science, medicine, agriculture, transport etc etc
Capitalism creates the products that give employment and create the profits that pays the taxes to fund the our services.
A share holder is either someone who risks his own money which is invested in a company to help it progress for the benefit of customers, shareholders, taxpayers and employees.
The other type of shareholders are the Insurance companies, Building Societies, Unions, Local Authorities, Pension Funds who invest for the benefit of a large chunk of the population.
Those sitting at home just now watching the 40" plasmas are most likely to be the workshy.
The alternative is to live in a world where you aspire to own a Trabant and are content to keep your job as a lift-man for the rest of your vodka swilling life.

Those large multinationals that are allowed to "cheat" the tax system is not because of capitalism but rather because of weak politicians. But Capitalism makes for competition which gives you the freedom the choose Costa Coffee over Starbucks and not to buy from Amazon etc. You can even Google to find the alternatives to Google!

Having said that I would like to see the law changed so that the large public companies have to have a decent percentage (say at least 30%) of their shares owned by their employees which would be very much in line with Capitalist principles

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 Post subject: Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:35 pm 
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Lord Elpers wrote:Capitalism has produced most of the finest advances in science, medicine, agriculture, transport etc etc


May I suggest you read "The Entrepreneurial State" by Mariana Mazzucato (it is available as a free pdf download). You'll find that many of today's "finest advances" have in fact been initially funded by the state. Could you seriously imagine private enterprise would've funded the technology required to allow the creation of the World Wide Web?

The systemic avoidance of corporation tax by various multi-nationals, through transfer pricing and relocating to "tax-efficient" jurisdictions is not a problem for politicians to solve. It is a problem of a near-criminal mindset of certain corporations






The older I get, the better I was

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 Post subject: Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:49 am 
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cod'ead wrote:May I suggest you read "The Entrepreneurial State" by Mariana Mazzucato (it is available as a free pdf download). You'll find that many of today's "finest advances" have in fact been initially funded by the state. Could you seriously imagine private enterprise would've funded the technology required to allow the creation of the World Wide Web?

The systemic avoidance of corporation tax by various multi-nationals, through transfer pricing and relocating to "tax-efficient" jurisdictions is not a problem for politicians to solve. It is a problem of a near-criminal mindset of certain corporations

Given the state doesn't generate funding itself where does the money come from to fund university research? It is no fluke that advances in knowledge have accelerated since the adoption of Capitalism as the major economic state. It also no fluke that most of these major advances have happened in countries where Capitalism is in place.

Your second point I have some sympathy with but it is a very tough world out there and companies are battling each other for dominance. Having cash is a must, paying it over in tax should be minimised. Nobody likes paying tax - you may but I would say you are in a minority. No party is advocating increasing income tax, why not if you think we are all so altruistic? if the citizens don't want to pay tax why would you think hard nosed business would be any different.






Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.

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 Post subject: Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:19 am 
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Sal Paradise wrote:Given the state doesn't generate funding itself where does the money come from to fund university research? It is no fluke that advances in knowledge have accelerated since the adoption of Capitalism as the major economic state. It also no fluke that most of these major advances have happened in countries where Capitalism is in place.

Your second point I have some sympathy with but it is a very tough world out there and companies are battling each other for dominance. Having cash is a must, paying it over in tax should be minimised. Nobody likes paying tax - you may but I would say you are in a minority. No party is advocating increasing income tax, why not if you think we are all so altruistic? if the citizens don't want to pay tax why would you think hard nosed business would be any different.


By providing the facilities for research - universities etc, the state very much generates funding of research. The military also funds research that transfers to civilian life. I mentioned the WWW, you can also add to that mobile cellular communications, GPS etc.

Without the initial state funding, it's extremely doubtful we would be communicating even now.

On my second point, why are some companies happy to pay their share of tax, while others will pay lawyers and accountants $millions to avoid paying their share? If the delinquent corporations could be brought into the tax loop then rates could be reduced. Why should some corporations feel they are entitled to benefit from infrastructure, education etc while making a zero contribution to the funding?

A timely report
Sal Paradise wrote:Given the state doesn't generate funding itself where does the money come from to fund university research? It is no fluke that advances in knowledge have accelerated since the adoption of Capitalism as the major economic state. It also no fluke that most of these major advances have happened in countries where Capitalism is in place.

Your second point I have some sympathy with but it is a very tough world out there and companies are battling each other for dominance. Having cash is a must, paying it over in tax should be minimised. Nobody likes paying tax - you may but I would say you are in a minority. No party is advocating increasing income tax, why not if you think we are all so altruistic? if the citizens don't want to pay tax why would you think hard nosed business would be any different.


By providing the facilities for research - universities etc, the state very much generates funding of research. The military also funds research that transfers to civilian life. I mentioned the WWW, you can also add to that mobile cellular communications, GPS etc.

Without the initial state funding, it's extremely doubtful we would be communicating even now.

On my second point, why are some companies happy to pay their share of tax, while others will pay lawyers and accountants $millions to avoid paying their share? If the delinquent corporations could be brought into the tax loop then rates could be reduced. Why should some corporations feel they are entitled to benefit from infrastructure, education etc while making a zero contribution to the funding?

A timely report






The older I get, the better I was

Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."

cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

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 Post subject: Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:25 pm 
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Lord Elpers wrote:No what I said was "Greece has a culture of tax avoidance and corruption spread across the population" - no mention of disease.


And you can demonstrate that this "culture" stops. Completely. The minute you step across the border leaving Greece. Any border?

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 Post subject: Re: Greece - Rise of the left or rise of the young?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:44 pm 
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I think he actually means tax evasion rather than avoidance.
Irrespective of whether he is right or not.






War does not determine who is right - only who is left.

Thank God I'm an atheist.

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