The population of the UK has gone up by a few million in recent years. It doesn't matter where they are living, you have to accept that they are living somewhere. As a percentage, only a tiny minority are homeless. Here are the facts

Up from 54m in 1964 to 64m now and the trend is a steady and quite steep increase.


there is no dispute that as any given district became predominantly Asian, this led to pubs and clubs closing for lack of trade. However
a) ALL those pubs' ex-customers, potentially, would be available for trade at some OTHER pub, near to wherever they moved to. As we all accept, social habits have changed but those people largely would still drink, and COULD be persuaded into pubs if the right deal (to them) was on offer.
b) The more recent influx of white European drinkers was sadly much too late for many pubs, as once they have closed, they have tended to be converted to other uses, and I don't know of any that have later re-converted back to a pub. So you again have drinkers back in a given area, but they have to make other arrangements for their drinking unless and until someone takes a punt that there is enough demand to open up a hostelry.


But who suggested otherwise? The points are so obvious as to be banal. Anyway, there are those whose job it is to analyse trends and habits in the minutest detail and it is a whole host of factors. You may find some very interesting reading, for example, here: http://store.mintel.com/beer-uk-december-2013


Indeed they do. And much more than I'd venture most people think. But you wouldn't I take it suggest that the additional sales of alcohol to muslims is anything other than a statistically insignificant percentage? You've raised an interesting point, though. Here's a couple of short articles on Muslims and alcohol, which will have quite a few eyebrow raising snippets for most people.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Alcohol_and_Drugs#Pakistan
http://www.economist.com/node/21560543

The stats are that between 2001 and 2011 alcohol consumption in the West increased by around 30%. In Muslim countries it increased by over 70% and that ain't all tourists.

However the fact is that no Muslim would openly admit to drinking, and even though alcohol is seemingly not at all prohibited, the position is that it may as well be, as the religious fundamentalists who are present everywhere have in recent times taken the position that a muslim must not drink alcohol, and whilst in private many may disagree, in public nobody is brave enough to open a debate about it. For these reasons, alcohol consumption in the UK by members of the muslim population isn't going to make any pub landlord rich.

The population of the UK has gone up by a few million in recent years. It doesn't matter where they are living, you have to accept that they are living somewhere. As a percentage, only a tiny minority are homeless. Here are the facts

Up from 54m in 1964 to 64m now and the trend is a steady and quite steep increase.


there is no dispute that as any given district became predominantly Asian, this led to pubs and clubs closing for lack of trade. However
a) ALL those pubs' ex-customers, potentially, would be available for trade at some OTHER pub, near to wherever they moved to. As we all accept, social habits have changed but those people largely would still drink, and COULD be persuaded into pubs if the right deal (to them) was on offer.
b) The more recent influx of white European drinkers was sadly much too late for many pubs, as once they have closed, they have tended to be converted to other uses, and I don't know of any that have later re-converted back to a pub. So you again have drinkers back in a given area, but they have to make other arrangements for their drinking unless and until someone takes a punt that there is enough demand to open up a hostelry.


But who suggested otherwise? The points are so obvious as to be banal. Anyway, there are those whose job it is to analyse trends and habits in the minutest detail and it is a whole host of factors. You may find some very interesting reading, for example, here: http://store.mintel.com/beer-uk-december-2013


Indeed they do. And much more than I'd venture most people think. But you wouldn't I take it suggest that the additional sales of alcohol to muslims is anything other than a statistically insignificant percentage? You've raised an interesting point, though. Here's a couple of short articles on Muslims and alcohol, which will have quite a few eyebrow raising snippets for most people.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Alcohol_and_Drugs#Pakistan
http://www.economist.com/node/21560543

The stats are that between 2001 and 2011 alcohol consumption in the West increased by around 30%. In Muslim countries it increased by over 70% and that ain't all tourists.

However the fact is that no Muslim would openly admit to drinking, and even though alcohol is seemingly not at all prohibited, the position is that it may as well be, as the religious fundamentalists who are present everywhere have in recent times taken the position that a muslim must not drink alcohol, and whilst in private many may disagree, in public nobody is brave enough to open a debate about it. For these reasons, alcohol consumption in the UK by members of the muslim population isn't going to make any pub landlord rich.

All good points, however Lord Hodgson is being berated for stating that, "in areas of Nottingham, Leicester, Manchester, Leeds and Birmingham the increase in the Muslim population who don't drink leads to many pub closures", a statement which is entirely true, given he hasn't even named this as the sole reason, but cites other influences. I would also add the smoking ban and simply the ever-growing cost of a pint, but a huge increase in a non-drinking population in an area will clearly be a significant factor.

While indeed the UK population has grown, break that down to the small catchment area of a local pub and the numbers become insignificant. I'd also wager that many pub closures are in areas similar to those close to me - old working class industrial areas now massively dominated by immigrant, mostly Muslim, populations. And yes, the population that has moved away no doubt now drink elsewhere - probably one of the soulless pub chains that seem to be the only pubs opening these days, or at home (or perhaps they have families and don't frequent pubs as often, or have died) - but that doesn't change the key fact: they have been replaced by a non-drinking population and their old local pubs have gone.

It's a simple equation: overwhelm an area with a population that doesn't drink (publicly), and the local pubs will see a decline in business. Similarly, many churches in areas dominated by Muslim communities have closed. If an area was suddenly dominated by Hindus I expect a fried chicken joint would see a decline in business.

I don't really see what the issue is - actually I do, it's knee-jerk media looking for a story. In reality, anyone choosing to 'take offence' really is scraping the barrel, yet there they are...and predictably they've rolled out quotes from "leaders of Britain's Muslim community"...


I never said it would. Simply making an observation. I once discussed this with a Muslim friend who liked his beer - his reply as he supped his lager was, "yes, I'm a Muslim, but I'm a bad Muslim." Oddly, a Muslim waiter in Kalkan, Turkey said exactly the same thing a few years later, word-for-word.

All good points, however Lord Hodgson is being berated for stating that, "in areas of Nottingham, Leicester, Manchester, Leeds and Birmingham the increase in the Muslim population who don't drink leads to many pub closures", a statement which is entirely true, given he hasn't even named this as the sole reason, but cites other influences. I would also add the smoking ban and simply the ever-growing cost of a pint, but a huge increase in a non-drinking population in an area will clearly be a significant factor.

While indeed the UK population has grown, break that down to the small catchment area of a local pub and the numbers become insignificant. I'd also wager that many pub closures are in areas similar to those close to me - old working class industrial areas now massively dominated by immigrant, mostly Muslim, populations. And yes, the population that has moved away no doubt now drink elsewhere - probably one of the soulless pub chains that seem to be the only pubs opening these days, or at home (or perhaps they have families and don't frequent pubs as often, or have died) - but that doesn't change the key fact: they have been replaced by a non-drinking population and their old local pubs have gone.

It's a simple equation: overwhelm an area with a population that doesn't drink (publicly), and the local pubs will see a decline in business. Similarly, many churches in areas dominated by Muslim communities have closed. If an area was suddenly dominated by Hindus I expect a fried chicken joint would see a decline in business.

I don't really see what the issue is - actually I do, it's knee-jerk media looking for a story. In reality, anyone choosing to 'take offence' really is scraping the barrel, yet there they are...and predictably they've rolled out quotes from "leaders of Britain's Muslim community"...


I never said it would. Simply making an observation. I once discussed this with a Muslim friend who liked his beer - his reply as he supped his lager was, "yes, I'm a Muslim, but I'm a bad Muslim." Oddly, a Muslim waiter in Kalkan, Turkey said exactly the same thing a few years later, word-for-word.