Not sure that upmarket stuff would cut the mustard in down to earth Yorkshire..

Well the attraction of the Leeds one is based almost entirely on the fact that I can just about see it from where I'm typing now.

Leeds is a provincial city with utter delusions of grandeur. It is a consumerist nirvana but I think the actual inhabitants aren't all that well catered for. For a start there's no ice rink housed in a 1960s hellhole of a building, and that's basically a pre-requisite for any major city in my book.

Touched a raw nerve there. It's the achilles heel of anyone from Leeds - they can't accept the notion that 'super' Leeds is not one of Britain's major cities. No trams and not even a real arena.

No one from Bradford claims the same so your comment re. the ice skating rink won't get a rise. Also I'm a Bradford Bulls fans so actually from Halifax.

But in all seriousness when Westfield opens and the Odean is revamped Bradford will overtake Leeds and Leeds City centre will be like a dead end ghost town. Wakefield a large Wakefield.

I've always thought my achilles heel is being born and raised in a city I don't like all that much. I have whatever is the opposite of civic pride.

Mind you it grew up on a largely flat area by a river, whereas Bradford inexplicably is clinging to various irritating inclines with the odd stream. Leeds wins that one.

According to historians, the various culverted streams were much more vigorous and generally more important in days gone by than they are now - one might say, that was, in many ways, a metaphor for the city itself. Though I, as a born and bred Bradfordian, couldn't comment. Mainly 'cos it makes me rather sad.

Sorry for diverting from the original topic, but while we're having a go at Leeds, I seem to remember someone commenting a while ago about how the fortunes of Bradford and Leeds came to diverge so spectacularly, particularly from the early 80s onwards. I'm trying to find some information on this subject - does anyone have any references?

There are a number or reasons, to be fair. Not least the [various]government decisions to 'centre' things on Leeds like road and rail transport which leaves leaves Bradford, which has around 500K inhabitants within the region, on a branch line and which gave Leeds a direct motorway link to London and left us in the doldrums for many years until the M62 joined up to the M1.

In the eighties, Thatcher made Leeds a 'development area', whilst simultaneously ignoring Bradford and clearly not caring about the effect this status for the city ten miles away, would have on its immediate neighbours. Which effectively meant many firms left Bradford for Leeds just to get all the government handouts which came with development area status.

I was in there last Friday, it's not bad. City gent has more character but then Record Cafe has more people/atmosphere. Decent ales too.

Have a go at Als Dime Bar if you're up there too. Its a friendly, fun place and they've normally got some good ales on, plus various beers from around the world and some top notch cocktails too. That creme egg martini I had last time I was in there, while not quite affirming my manliness, tasted lovely.

I'm in record cafe. It has a fresh paint smell and seems nice enough. Sparrow was ok but don't really see what the fuss is about it.

Market was pants. Bought mead. Drinking scrumpy.