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 Post subject: How to break the cartel?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:23 pm 
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Location: In the land of wishful thinking once more. Patiently waiting for our time to finally arrive.
With this week's play-off games now complete, we now know the line up at Old Trafford next Saturday. After "the most competitive Super league ever" (copyright SkySports 1996-Ad nauseum) we've ended up with a Grand final being played out between two of the usual suspects, suprise suprise.

We've now had 19 seasons of Super League / Summer Rugby. 19 seasons which encompass 57 trophies in total up for grabs (Challenge Cup, League Leaders/Title, Grand final/Premiership play-off). 19 years in which just 5 clubs (Leeds, Saints, Wigan, Warrington & Bradford) have lifted 54 of those 57 trophies available. Aside from Huddersfield's hubcap win last year and a couple of upsets in Challenge Cup finals in 1998 & 2005 :D , The entire Super league era has been dominated by a small self contained elite.

The domination of this elite is only occasionally threatened (and always only temporarily) before the usual suspects re-assert themselves and the status quo is maintained. Every so often a club will elbow their way into contention, only to be put back in their place when the real business of winning trophies comes around. Be it Huddersfield 2013/14, Castleford 2014 or Hull Fc 2004-06, the elite indulge them for a while before knocking them back down into the pack of dreamers/no-hopers.

A knock on effect of this domination is that young players of genuine potential that emerge at one of the mid table clubs usually feel the need to move on at some point in order to fulfill their ambition at maybe picking up the odd trinket or two. I believe in football this is sometimes known as "Southampton Syndrome". Any attempt by a mid table club to build a squad capable of competing over a period of time gets de-railed by the "big" clubs merely cherry picking as and when it suits them. The big clubs remain in power, the smaller ones remain in a state of running to stand still and the circle remains unbroken.

The only real difference between Super League 1996-2006 and Super League post 2006 is that the first period was dominated, at various times, by Wigan, Sts, Bradford and Leeds with the odd pin prick from ourselves, whereas post 2006 has been dominated by Wigan, Sts, Leeds and Warrington with the odd pin prick from Huddersfield.

So, can the cartel be broken (by Hull Fc or anyone) or are we doomed to spending the next 19 years watching a repeat of the last 19 years. Will Old Trafford always be the preserve of Wigan, St Helens and Leeds with the odd once-in-a-blue-moon visit by someone else or can Super League genuinely become an open competitive league with any number of potential winners.

Failing that, how in God's name does Adam Pearson turn Hull Fc from also-rans to a member of the genuine elite?
Answers to the usual address please (from the usual suspects no doubt).






I've been on the internet and have already got a sense of the fans' passion for the club. They are very fanatical - Peter Gentle 12th September 2011.

Money doesn't talk it swears, Obscenity who really cares, Propaganda all is phony.

I'm the son and heir of a shyness which is criminally vulgar.

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way.

A man who lives in hell can still aspire to heaven.

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 Post subject: Re: How to break the cartel?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:10 pm 
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Yes it can be done as Bradford and Warrington prove. Warrington were never serious contenders at the start of this 19 years and Bradford certainly aren't now. That said it is an incredibly small turnover and breaking into and staying in the elite will be nothing other than very difficult, but its not impossible. There is no magic formula but investing in a good youth system and off field infrastructure is an obvious start and the ability to negotiate around the ways and means of the salary cap would help - providing it is spent wisely. We can live in hope (or just moan constantly like some on here) as Hull as better resourced than many of the other contenders so theoretically have a better chance. So possible - yes; likely - rather less so; impossible - the only people happy with that would be the professional whingers and doomsayers.

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 Post subject: Re: How to break the cartel?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:46 pm 
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Location: In the land of wishful thinking once more. Patiently waiting for our time to finally arrive.
Erik the not red wrote:Yes it can be done as Bradford and Warrington prove. Warrington were never serious contenders at the start of this 19 years and Bradford certainly aren't now. That said it is an incredibly small turnover and breaking into and staying in the elite will be nothing other than very difficult, but its not impossible. There is no magic formula but investing in a good youth system and off field infrastructure is an obvious start and the ability to negotiate around the ways and means of the salary cap would help - providing it is spent wisely. We can live in hope (or just moan constantly like some on here) as Hull as better resourced than many of the other contenders so theoretically have a better chance. So possible - yes; likely - rather less so; impossible - the only people happy with that would be the professional whingers and doomsayers.


Absolutely agree with all of the above. As you point out, both Bradford and Warrington have turned themselves into a part of the elite (though Bradford couldn't sustain it and it remains to be seen whether Warrington can). Even Leeds have transformed themselves from perpetual under-achievers into serial winners over the course of the last ten years.

What is incredibly frustrating from our point of view, of course, is that we laid the groundwork ten years ago only to promptly blow our chance in a welter of bad decision making and a plethora of wrong choices both on and off the pitch. Our rise in the middle part of the last decade coincided with the first signs of things going awry at Bradford coupled with Wigan badly losing their way. A place at the top table was there for the taking and we missed a golden opportuinty. Effectively Warrington took our spot leaving us playing catch up once more.

I think it's this sense of a missed chance which so brasses off so many on here.






I've been on the internet and have already got a sense of the fans' passion for the club. They are very fanatical - Peter Gentle 12th September 2011.

Money doesn't talk it swears, Obscenity who really cares, Propaganda all is phony.

I'm the son and heir of a shyness which is criminally vulgar.

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way.

A man who lives in hell can still aspire to heaven.

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 Post subject: Re: How to break the cartel?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:01 pm 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
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BP1 wrote:I think it's this sense of a missed chance which so brasses off so many on here.

Gentle was on the road to securing our position, top 6 and progressing, the Ears undermined him from within.

Has Pearson run out of money, time will tell. We've paid fees for questionable players and signed an old man from France.

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 Post subject: Re: How to break the cartel?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:10 pm 
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This is becoming embarrassing.

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 Post subject: Re: How to break the cartel?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:18 pm 
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another thread ruined before it starts with anti radders drivel






once a black and white always a black and white COYH

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 Post subject: Re: How to break the cartel?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:26 pm 
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if anybody listened to the james webster interview on humberside a few weeks ago, he was spot on in everything he said, the same teams will continue to go onto finals for years to come, until ALL teams invest in youth, like we are doing now, the top teams will cherry pick the players from the 'lesser' clubs while keeping hold of their top youngsters! the likes of saints, wigan and leeds have been doing just his for years, hence why they reach the finals all the time, yes warrington and hudds have had success, mainly down to moran and davey buying top players.

my fear for next season is sky seem to love wigan, saints, wire and leeds! are they calling the shots? saints v catalan last thursday certainly raised a few eyebrows the way it was officiated, a half empty old trafford wouldnt sit well with the rfl and sky, why bother having the catalan team if our own organisation did its upmost to stop them reaching the major final! all in my own opinion of course!

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 Post subject: Re: How to break the cartel?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:31 pm 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
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hull2524 wrote:another thread ruined before it starts with anti radders drivel

bulls41t

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 Post subject: Re: How to break the cartel?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:36 pm 
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WIZEB wrote:This is becoming embarrassing.


I quite agree. Time to have the common denominator removed.

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 Post subject: Re: How to break the cartel?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:44 pm 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
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Joined: Apr 03 2003
Posts: 37503
ComeOnYouUll wrote:I quite agree. Time to have the common denominator removed.

you mean time for everyone to agree with you?

why not add to the conversation, how can we break the cartel, does a cartel even exist, or is it that other clubs simply don't have the staff to make a dent in the competition?

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