FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home Hull FC gareth carvell



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 574 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56 ... 58  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: gareth carvell
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:37 pm 
International Board Member
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Sep 08 2002
Posts: 12512
Location: Elloughton
Jake the Peg wrote:The club doesn't exist in law so can't enter into a contract. His contract was with OK bulls Ltd (or whatever it was called) and he has every right to refuse the TUPE transfer. bradford are FUBAR'd


Under TUPE you can refuse, but that on its own doesn't grant you a dismissal, constructive or otherwise. He would still be bound to his existing contractural conditions and could be held in violation of conditions. All TUPE is is a protection of employment conditions in a business transfer, not a change in employment conditions as required for constructive dismissal.

That said, my understanding is that they altered his conditions, I believe his salary. Which is clear contractural violation.

Either way. Providing Hull didn't make an approach, all is good from that point of view and the case against Carvell is very likely not worth perusing. I expect this to go away with a whimper.






If you are interested in Building Information Modelling (BIM). PM me.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: gareth carvell
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:38 pm 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19 2003
Posts: 17898
Location: Packed like sardines, in a tin
Mrs Barista wrote:But simultaneously with Thackray. Do you see a pattern emerging?

Big lads all!






2005 Challenge Cup

To reconcile respect with practicality, what is the optimum speed for a hearse?

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: gareth carvel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:42 pm 
International Board Member
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Sep 08 2002
Posts: 12512
Location: Elloughton
*1865* wrote:What that means is they rejected his rejection of the new company due to terms in his contract whereby the term 'the club' referred to Bradford Bulls no matter who owned it! It's amateurish at best, they can't honestly believe that they can get away with that crap? They'll get taken to the cleaners in court.


Nope, they wouldn't. Unless their actions were discriminatory, best an employee can get is lost income. You as an employee can't even claim legal costs. Something I've written to parliament about before as I believe the system of employment tribunals is very lopsided in favour of employers with disposable capital.






If you are interested in Building Information Modelling (BIM). PM me.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: gareth carvell
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:43 pm 
International Star
International Star

Joined: Aug 15 2011
Posts: 5318
TUPE does allow resignation, but we'll have to wait and see.....

Quote:An employee has the right to object to the transfer and this has the effect of terminating their employment.
However, that termination would in most circumstances be taken to be a resignation by the employee.
An objection is not treated as a dismissal unless the transfer would involve a substantial and detrimental change to their working conditions.
In those circumstances it may amount to constructive unfair dismissal.
There is no right to take redundancy in this situation






Is Hodgson the new Griffin, or is it all about pace?

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: gareth carvell
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:45 pm 
International Chairman
International Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mar 22 2007
Posts: 30323
Bal wrote:Under TUPE you can refuse, but that on its own doesn't grant you a dismissal, constructive or otherwise. He would still be bound to his existing contractural conditions and could be held in violation of conditions. All TUPE is is a protection of employment conditions in a business transfer, not a change in employment conditions as required for constructive dismissal.

That said, my understanding is that they altered his conditions, I believe his salary. Which is clear contractural violation.

Either way. Providing Hull didn't make an approach, all is good from that point of view and the case against Carvell is very likely not worth perusing. I expect this to go away with a whimper.

My understanding of TUPE is that an employee can't be compelled to transfer his employment to a new employer and has the right to walk away from an employment contract. I'm pretty sure this is the fundamental principle here and why carvell feels he can walk away. I've never seen any mention of reduced salaries. I don't think anyone has mentioned dismissal, constructive or otherwise. I'm pretty sure he's just exercising his right to walk away under TUPE






The poor man's bonaire

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: gareth carvell
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:46 pm 
International Board Member
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Sep 08 2002
Posts: 12512
Location: Elloughton
ccs wrote:TUPE does allow resignation, but we'll have to wait and see.....



You can "resign" at anytime. Your not obliged to work for somebody, but it doesn't free you from your contractural obligations unless you are dismissed or constructively dismiss yourself.

One of the key requirements for constructive dismissal is a change in employment conditions. A TUPE transfer is meant to actually protect these conditions.






If you are interested in Building Information Modelling (BIM). PM me.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: gareth carvell
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:49 pm 
International Chairman
International Chairman
User avatar

Joined: Mar 22 2007
Posts: 30323
Bal wrote:You can "resign" at anytime. Your not obliged to work for somebody, but it doesn't free you from your contractural obligations unless you are dismissed or constructively dismiss yourself.

One of the key requirements for constructive dismissal is a change in employment conditions. A TUPE transfer is meant to actually protect these conditions.

Under TUPE he can walk away from any contract he had with the previous employer. No one is trying to claim constructive dismissal, just that his contract with bradford is null and void






The poor man's bonaire

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: gareth carvell
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:55 pm 
International Board Member
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Sep 08 2002
Posts: 12512
Location: Elloughton
Jake the Peg wrote:Under TUPE he can walk away from any contract he had with the previous employer. No one is trying to claim constructive dismissal, just that his contract with bradford is null and void


It doesn't actually end the contract, or count as dismissal. However I believe you do get a very short consultation period under TUPE to refuse and walk away liability free. Not sure of the duration, but it's less than a week I think.

Bradford seem to be indicating from their statement that he didn't exercise this hence the surprise.






If you are interested in Building Information Modelling (BIM). PM me.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: gareth carvell
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:58 pm 
International Star
International Star

Joined: Aug 15 2011
Posts: 5318
Jake the Peg wrote:Under TUPE he can walk away from any contract he had with the previous employer. No one is trying to claim constructive dismissal, just that his contract with bradford is null and void


That's how I see it.

What is odd is this reference in Bradford's statement.

Quote:his playing contract will only allow him to resign if the club is guilty of serious and persistent breach of the terms and conditions of this agreement


which wouldn't apply straight after a TUPE transfer.






Is Hodgson the new Griffin, or is it all about pace?

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: gareth carvell
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:01 pm 
International Star
International Star

Joined: Aug 15 2011
Posts: 5318
Bal wrote:It doesn't actually end the contract, or count as dismissal. However I believe you do get a very short consultation period under TUPE to refuse and walk away liability free. Not sure of the duration, but it's less than a week I think.

Bradford seem to be indicating from their statement that he didn't exercise this hence the surprise.


The TUPE transfer was 9 working days ago, and Bradford wrote to Carvell "last week", so one has to assume that the consultation period was very short.






Is Hodgson the new Griffin, or is it all about pace?

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 574 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56 ... 58  Next





It is currently Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:23 pm


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BESTY, CarlB, Dave K., DSJ1983, excruciatingterror, FC Callum, Google Adsense [Bot], Greavsie, HU8HFC, Marcus's Bicycle, McFc, OmneFC, Roam Ranger, Windy winger, Yippee try yay and 240 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Thu Nov 14, 2024 3:23 pm
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
17m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
HU8HFC
3875
36m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40586
38m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63076
39m
Film game
Boss Hog
5312
40m
The Brick Stadium ownership update
jaws1
22
51m
I dont think this is a good signing for the Leopards
Cokey
2
Recent
Offiah on Salary Cap
Shifty Cat
11
Recent
Shopping list for 2025
Dave K.
5530
Recent
2025 Recruitment
Ckt2487
166
Recent
French Elite 1 season 2024/2025 Thread
Jimmythecuck
6
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Ground Improvements
Khlav Kalash
125
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40586
1m
Gary Schofield
Jake the Peg
9
1m
Season pass roll call
Freddie Mill
22
2m
removing posts
Dannyboywt1
3
2m
Film game
Boss Hog
5312
2m
Garry Schofield
Or thane
13
3m
Hospitality packages including new refurbished Foxs Bar
Dunkirk Spir
8
3m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63076
3m
Dons Squad 2025
Jemmo
10
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
I dont think this is a good signing for the Leopards
Cokey
2
TODAY
Red Devils sign International forward
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Hospitality packages including new refurbished Foxs Bar
Dunkirk Spir
8
TODAY
Offiah on Salary Cap
Shifty Cat
11
TODAY
removing posts
Dannyboywt1
3
TODAY
Season pass roll call
Freddie Mill
22
TODAY
Positivity Pact
Sebasteeno
3
TODAY
Jack Coventry
Wanderer
1
TODAY
A Year to Remember
Zig
1
TODAY
2025 Annual
JamieRobinso
1
TODAY
2025 KIT Thread
Sadfish
1
TODAY
NRL Kick Off Rules
stpatricks
7
TODAY
Garry Schofield
PopTart
6
TODAY
Out of contract 2025
Wires71
8
TODAY
Gary Schofield
Jake the Peg
9
TODAY
Joe Phillips
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Andy Ellis
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Manoa Wacokecoke
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jeylan Hodgson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Mackenzie Harman
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Ben Dent
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Callum Rutland
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Harry Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jack Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Garry Schofield
Or thane
13
TODAY
Lennon Bursell
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Brett Ferres
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Reece Dean
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Alex Holdstock
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Thomas Minns
Wanderer
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
922
England's Women Demolish The W..
764
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1026
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
825
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1102
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1619
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1879
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2134
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1708
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1948
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2413
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1852
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1943
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
2123
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2259
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
17m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
HU8HFC
3875
36m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40586
38m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63076
39m
Film game
Boss Hog
5312
40m
The Brick Stadium ownership update
jaws1
22
51m
I dont think this is a good signing for the Leopards
Cokey
2
Recent
Offiah on Salary Cap
Shifty Cat
11
Recent
Shopping list for 2025
Dave K.
5530
Recent
2025 Recruitment
Ckt2487
166
Recent
French Elite 1 season 2024/2025 Thread
Jimmythecuck
6
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Ground Improvements
Khlav Kalash
125
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
40586
1m
Gary Schofield
Jake the Peg
9
1m
Season pass roll call
Freddie Mill
22
2m
removing posts
Dannyboywt1
3
2m
Film game
Boss Hog
5312
2m
Garry Schofield
Or thane
13
3m
Hospitality packages including new refurbished Foxs Bar
Dunkirk Spir
8
3m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63076
3m
Dons Squad 2025
Jemmo
10
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
I dont think this is a good signing for the Leopards
Cokey
2
TODAY
Red Devils sign International forward
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Hospitality packages including new refurbished Foxs Bar
Dunkirk Spir
8
TODAY
Offiah on Salary Cap
Shifty Cat
11
TODAY
removing posts
Dannyboywt1
3
TODAY
Season pass roll call
Freddie Mill
22
TODAY
Positivity Pact
Sebasteeno
3
TODAY
Jack Coventry
Wanderer
1
TODAY
A Year to Remember
Zig
1
TODAY
2025 Annual
JamieRobinso
1
TODAY
2025 KIT Thread
Sadfish
1
TODAY
NRL Kick Off Rules
stpatricks
7
TODAY
Garry Schofield
PopTart
6
TODAY
Out of contract 2025
Wires71
8
TODAY
Gary Schofield
Jake the Peg
9
TODAY
Joe Phillips
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Andy Ellis
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Manoa Wacokecoke
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jeylan Hodgson
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Mackenzie Harman
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Ben Dent
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Callum Rutland
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Harry Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Jack Aldous
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Garry Schofield
Or thane
13
TODAY
Lennon Bursell
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Brett Ferres
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Reece Dean
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Alex Holdstock
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Thomas Minns
Wanderer
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
922
England's Women Demolish The W..
764
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1026
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
825
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1102
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1619
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
1879
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2134
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1708
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
1948
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2413
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
1852
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
1943
Hull KR Survive Warrington Fig..
2123
Warrington Wolves Break Saints..
2259


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.