Post subject: Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:24 pm
dubairl
International Star
Joined: Jul 06 2011 Posts: 3368
Mintball wrote:So you're the result of a system that doesn't work?
Everything is so much clearer.
ow resulting to personal insults touched a nerve have i? Seriously get off your soap box and get over your self. You have you opinion i have mine, i wasn't the one who came on here question your opinions on a broken system.
Post subject: Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:33 pm
Mintball
All Time Great
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
dubairl wrote:ow resulting to personal insults touched a nerve have i?
You're the one who stated that you've seen two systems – so presumably including the one in the UK, where you were born and grew up – and you're suggesting that the one that works is not this one. Since that is the system that produced you, you're damned by your own logic.
dubairl wrote:Seriously get off your soap box and get over your self. You have you opinion i have mine, i wasn't the one who came on here question your opinions on a broken system.
In the interests of nostalgia, let's look back:
Your first post on this thread wrote:i always believe that you should be shown what percent of your many taxations goes towards your children's schooling and it should be up to you if you pay it or put them through private education.
So quit with the pretence that you didn't come here to 'question the system'.
If you feel threatened by anyone daring to question your opinions – on a discussion forum – you might find safer.
dubairl wrote:ow resulting to personal insults touched a nerve have i?
You're the one who stated that you've seen two systems – so presumably including the one in the UK, where you were born and grew up – and you're suggesting that the one that works is not this one. Since that is the system that produced you, you're damned by your own logic.
dubairl wrote:Seriously get off your soap box and get over your self. You have you opinion i have mine, i wasn't the one who came on here question your opinions on a broken system.
In the interests of nostalgia, let's look back:
Your first post on this thread wrote:i always believe that you should be shown what percent of your many taxations goes towards your children's schooling and it should be up to you if you pay it or put them through private education.
Post subject: Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:59 pm
dubairl
International Star
Joined: Jul 06 2011 Posts: 3368
Mintball wrote:I'm not concerned about what you earn.
You're the one who claims to be the high earner who deserves a reward.
Incidentally, who pays for all the roads and lights and all manner of other things that, presumably, Dubai actually has?
If you didn't mean this, then perhaps you should have worded it more carefully.
Because what you have written suggests pretty clearly that people who do not (in general) work as hard as you do, to earn what you do, do not deserve the sort of extra reward that you do for, presumably, working your "booty off".
In other words, that they do not work as hard as you.
It's called being a member of society.
Perhaps you should consider it sometime.
Most people have mortgages these days or pay substantial rents in the private sector, because there's F' all council housing left. That's why the housing benefit bill is so high. That's part of the reason that so many people in the UK need benefits even when they are in work.
And the relationship between these things (the rate of pay, the cost of living etc) is why we have massively growing food banks, the Red Cross handing out food parcels and Save the Children spending money in this country rather than merely collecting it.
And the idea should be that everyone gets an education of equal standard. That would be best for the whole of society – not just for the fortunate few.
Indeed. Then I'd know about the Filipinas working for Emirati families as live-in servants for less than US$400 a month, with one rest day a month; or the millions living in work camps and taken by bus into the cities every day in coaches with bars at the windows, wouldn't I?
Still, just as long as you don't have to be punished by paying taxes that contribute toward someone else's education, eh?
So your father paid for all your schooling, health care etc, plus that of any of your siblings, plus any health care for your mother such as maternity care, for instance (or did she work herself?) out of his taxes? And his father before him did the same for him? Etc etc.
But that's only part of the point: the other part is about everybody contributing to the greater good of society/the nation.
Now, this is obviously a somewhat philosophical subject, but why do you believe that yo0u should be exempt from at least part of that?
And the point of this is?
I never once mentioned how much i earn. This is my opinions on taxation nothing to do with my circumstances.
The government and before you mention it Dubai has no oil. Company play a lot of money to be here and every process through the government charges you.
I never said it in other words, you did! Because you earn more money doesn't mean you should be punished for it.
Dubai is one of the most multi cultural place in the world i would say a greater society exist here than in the UK.
I have never said i have a problem with people who work but get topped up with benefits and if i have where have i said so? what i do have a problem with is benefit cheats, scroungers and teenagers who have children to pay there way in life.
if the taxation wasn't so high would people still need mortgages? obviously i know other factors come into. i would argue the benefit system has crippled council housing as well.
Ok for example everybody in the uk had the same standard schooling as at eton would everybody come out and get the top paying jobs around the world? No because not everybody appreciates it and then there are the ones who would prefer to learn a trade to earn money. Equality is an impossibility why would some one who has struggled to pay them selves through uni and then got them selves to a decent position in life, then turn around and say yeah ok i will only take the minimum wage out of my salary and give the rest to the government to help others? which the majority of the time it gets abused anyway because of the system thats in place? Or are we really saying the people who truly need it are the only ones who take from the benefit and housing systems?
First off i will say my fiancé is from the philippines, have you ever been? my best guess would be no. i have said this perviously on this website before, i don't agree with the human rights here or how some selected companies treat employes here but what i will say is those people would be back home in the 3rd world country with no home, food, health care, employment, ways to provide for there family or even an education/skills. I have a maid in my house and she works 5 days a week, has an out house, gets provided with food and she is very happy person and she would be terribly upset if i said you're sacked because people in the uk don't agree with it. Same goes with the work men, have you ever been to a recruitment drive in India? people queuing for 2 days and traveling for up to a week to get to them. but hey as long as the middle class keep paying taxes huh. What i will say is Dubai is making a massive effort to improve the living standards for unskilled workers. In general people seem to be happy here and if not they are always allowed to leave its not there own country after all.
Also don't exaggerate or do you truly believe those news paper headlines, Millions there isn't enough people in Dubai to be millions of workers. Also What exactly do you think a labour camp is? majority of them are blocks of flats where only laborers live because there companies own those accommodations. Buses with bars do you think they are prisoners or something? they are free to do what i do.
Private health care covers maternity. And my mum never claimed maternity pay as she was self employed this was with my brother of course as i would have no idea about me. Like i said my parents were never entitled to benefits or any help yet they still had to pay a massive amount of tax when they never took from the government.
this will be my last post as this is going grossly off subject. and obviously you have you're opinions and i have mine.
Mintball wrote:I'm not concerned about what you earn.
You're the one who claims to be the high earner who deserves a reward.
Incidentally, who pays for all the roads and lights and all manner of other things that, presumably, Dubai actually has?
If you didn't mean this, then perhaps you should have worded it more carefully.
Because what you have written suggests pretty clearly that people who do not (in general) work as hard as you do, to earn what you do, do not deserve the sort of extra reward that you do for, presumably, working your "booty off".
In other words, that they do not work as hard as you.
It's called being a member of society.
Perhaps you should consider it sometime.
Most people have mortgages these days or pay substantial rents in the private sector, because there's F' all council housing left. That's why the housing benefit bill is so high. That's part of the reason that so many people in the UK need benefits even when they are in work.
And the relationship between these things (the rate of pay, the cost of living etc) is why we have massively growing food banks, the Red Cross handing out food parcels and Save the Children spending money in this country rather than merely collecting it.
And the idea should be that everyone gets an education of equal standard. That would be best for the whole of society – not just for the fortunate few.
Indeed. Then I'd know about the Filipinas working for Emirati families as live-in servants for less than US$400 a month, with one rest day a month; or the millions living in work camps and taken by bus into the cities every day in coaches with bars at the windows, wouldn't I?
Still, just as long as you don't have to be punished by paying taxes that contribute toward someone else's education, eh?
So your father paid for all your schooling, health care etc, plus that of any of your siblings, plus any health care for your mother such as maternity care, for instance (or did she work herself?) out of his taxes? And his father before him did the same for him? Etc etc.
But that's only part of the point: the other part is about everybody contributing to the greater good of society/the nation.
Now, this is obviously a somewhat philosophical subject, but why do you believe that yo0u should be exempt from at least part of that?
And the point of this is?
I never once mentioned how much i earn. This is my opinions on taxation nothing to do with my circumstances.
The government and before you mention it Dubai has no oil. Company play a lot of money to be here and every process through the government charges you.
I never said it in other words, you did! Because you earn more money doesn't mean you should be punished for it.
Dubai is one of the most multi cultural place in the world i would say a greater society exist here than in the UK.
I have never said i have a problem with people who work but get topped up with benefits and if i have where have i said so? what i do have a problem with is benefit cheats, scroungers and teenagers who have children to pay there way in life.
if the taxation wasn't so high would people still need mortgages? obviously i know other factors come into. i would argue the benefit system has crippled council housing as well.
Ok for example everybody in the uk had the same standard schooling as at eton would everybody come out and get the top paying jobs around the world? No because not everybody appreciates it and then there are the ones who would prefer to learn a trade to earn money. Equality is an impossibility why would some one who has struggled to pay them selves through uni and then got them selves to a decent position in life, then turn around and say yeah ok i will only take the minimum wage out of my salary and give the rest to the government to help others? which the majority of the time it gets abused anyway because of the system thats in place? Or are we really saying the people who truly need it are the only ones who take from the benefit and housing systems?
First off i will say my fiancé is from the philippines, have you ever been? my best guess would be no. i have said this perviously on this website before, i don't agree with the human rights here or how some selected companies treat employes here but what i will say is those people would be back home in the 3rd world country with no home, food, health care, employment, ways to provide for there family or even an education/skills. I have a maid in my house and she works 5 days a week, has an out house, gets provided with food and she is very happy person and she would be terribly upset if i said you're sacked because people in the uk don't agree with it. Same goes with the work men, have you ever been to a recruitment drive in India? people queuing for 2 days and traveling for up to a week to get to them. but hey as long as the middle class keep paying taxes huh. What i will say is Dubai is making a massive effort to improve the living standards for unskilled workers. In general people seem to be happy here and if not they are always allowed to leave its not there own country after all.
Also don't exaggerate or do you truly believe those news paper headlines, Millions there isn't enough people in Dubai to be millions of workers. Also What exactly do you think a labour camp is? majority of them are blocks of flats where only laborers live because there companies own those accommodations. Buses with bars do you think they are prisoners or something? they are free to do what i do.
Private health care covers maternity. And my mum never claimed maternity pay as she was self employed this was with my brother of course as i would have no idea about me. Like i said my parents were never entitled to benefits or any help yet they still had to pay a massive amount of tax when they never took from the government.
this will be my last post as this is going grossly off subject. and obviously you have you're opinions and i have mine.
Post subject: Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:06 pm
dubairl
International Star
Joined: Jul 06 2011 Posts: 3368
Mintball wrote:You're the one who stated that you've seen two systems – so presumably including the one in the UK, where you were born and grew up – and you're suggesting that the one that works is not this one. Since that is the system that produced you, you're damned by your own logic.
In the interests of nostalgia, let's look back:
So quit with the pretence that you didn't come here to 'question the system'.
If you feel threatened by anyone daring to question your opinions – on a discussion forum – you might find safer.
Some reason i am getting the opinion you like to twist the truth and pass it on as facts.
so did i question your beliefs or opinions? no you questioned mine if you don't like the answer stop talking to me simple really.
i have no problem in people question my opinion on a subject like dally, he then didn't drag it out over a multiple post and then start twisting the context of my opinions which has resulted in a childish insult.
Mintball wrote:You're the one who stated that you've seen two systems – so presumably including the one in the UK, where you were born and grew up – and you're suggesting that the one that works is not this one. Since that is the system that produced you, you're damned by your own logic.
In the interests of nostalgia, let's look back:
So quit with the pretence that you didn't come here to 'question the system'.
If you feel threatened by anyone daring to question your opinions – on a discussion forum – you might find safer.
Some reason i am getting the opinion you like to twist the truth and pass it on as facts.
so did i question your beliefs or opinions? no you questioned mine if you don't like the answer stop talking to me simple really.
i have no problem in people question my opinion on a subject like dally, he then didn't drag it out over a multiple post and then start twisting the context of my opinions which has resulted in a childish insult.
Post subject: Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:22 pm
Mintball
All Time Great
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
dubairl wrote:Some reason i am getting the opinion you like to twist the truth and pass it on as facts.
so did i question your beliefs or opinions? no you questioned mine if you don't like the answer stop talking to me simple really...
This is a discussion forum. People discuss and debate things.
If you want to 'question my beliefs', you're more than entitled to.
dubairl wrote:i have no problem in people question my opinion on a subject like dally, he then didn't drag it out over a multiple post and then start twisting the context of my opinions which has resulted in a childish insult.
So there's a limit to how many questions you can be asked or points raised? Perhaps you can let us know what it is.
Otherwise, particularly if someone feels that someone else has not coherently answered something, then a discussion continues. That's actually quite normal.
And I have not "twisted" anything. I have taken some of your comments and applied logic to them.
Thus: if the UK is a poor system, as you yourself have implied, then how could a product of it be anything other than below par when compared to a product of something that you regard as a better system?
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Post subject: Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:37 pm
JerryChicken
International Star
Joined: Jul 09 2012 Posts: 3605 Location: Leeds
dubairl wrote:I earn just over 30,000 obviously that is tax free but living costs are considerably higher here.
Just out of interest do you know how much tax and NIS you'd pay on that amount if you lived in the UK ?
We'll ignore the fact that you may also qualify for child and working tax credits and just assume you are a single person paying a mortgage in a provincial town (ie not London).
You don't have to do this in public if you don't want to but it would be interesting to see how much you currently pay for whole life unlimited health cover to include A&E with no restrictions on cost or term for chronic ailments, plus a private pension scheme that will nett you £110 per week from the age of 65 with no time limit and a cost of living rise each year.
Can you also give an indication if you have or don't have unemployment insurance cover for housing and to cover healthcare during a prolonged period of unemployment, again unlimited in its term of cover and amount of potential claims.
Those are just three things to check, your quoted salary is slightly above average in the UK but gives us a good bar to compare with - give us some general idea of what you have to spend to get equivalent cover in a country that has no income tax scheme but no social provisions either.
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
Post subject: Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:06 pm
dubairl
International Star
Joined: Jul 06 2011 Posts: 3368
JerryChicken wrote:Just out of interest do you know how much tax and NIS you'd pay on that amount if you lived in the UK ?
We'll ignore the fact that you may also qualify for child and working tax credits and just assume you are a single person paying a mortgage in a provincial town (ie not London).
You don't have to do this in public if you don't want to but it would be interesting to see how much you currently pay for whole life unlimited health cover to include A&E with no restrictions on cost or term for chronic ailments, plus a private pension scheme that will nett you £110 per week from the age of 65 with no time limit and a cost of living rise each year.
Can you also give an indication if you have or don't have unemployment insurance cover for housing and to cover healthcare during a prolonged period of unemployment, again unlimited in its term of cover and amount of potential claims.
Those are just three things to check, your quoted salary is slightly above average in the UK but gives us a good bar to compare with - give us some general idea of what you have to spend to get equivalent cover in a country that has no income tax scheme but no social provisions either.
To be honest i am well out of date with the rate of NIS and Tax bands. but i would imagine its 6-8% NIS and 12-18% tax? but like i said well out of date with them.
Like i said i won't have children till i can afford them and I don't blame or hold anything against people who have children and work but claim tax credits. I only have a problem with people who have children to get benefits in life.
My Medical insurance premium in dubai is roughly $2,500 US. The policy covers me up to 1,000,000 in treatments, in patient & out patient and is direct billing, the excess on the policy is 12quid. obviously there is other benefits to it but they are the main ones. but that doesn't include a pension fund, once i purchased a couple of apartments (main aim is to have a small property portfolio) i will start contributing to a pension fund.
I have unemployment insurance with my bank, it covers my monthly salary for 6months, But i do have savings if anything ever was to seriously happen.
If i am honest that is my salary but not including extras i do. I do freelance business solutions, mainly I help companies set up here because the process to get a trade license isn't and easy process. Each company i set up with a trade license i get around 1,500-2,000 pounds.
I am sure there are policies that cover that here but i don't have one. Dubai is a great city but i wouldn't say its set up for people to retire here.
Post subject: Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:56 pm
JerryChicken
International Star
Joined: Jul 09 2012 Posts: 3605 Location: Leeds
dubairl wrote:To be honest i am well out of date with the rate of NIS and Tax bands. but i would imagine its 6-8% NIS and 12-18% tax? but like i said well out of date with them.
Like i said i won't have children till i can afford them and I don't blame or hold anything against people who have children and work but claim tax credits. I only have a problem with people who have children to get benefits in life.
My Medical insurance premium in dubai is roughly $2,500 US. The policy covers me up to 1,000,000 in treatments, in patient & out patient and is direct billing, the excess on the policy is 12quid. obviously there is other benefits to it but they are the main ones. but that doesn't include a pension fund, once i purchased a couple of apartments (main aim is to have a small property portfolio) i will start contributing to a pension fund.
I have unemployment insurance with my bank, it covers my monthly salary for 6months, But i do have savings if anything ever was to seriously happen.
If i am honest that is my salary but not including extras i do. I do freelance business solutions, mainly I help companies set up here because the process to get a trade license isn't and easy process. Each company i set up with a trade license i get around 1,500-2,000 pounds.
I am sure there are policies that cover that here but i don't have one. Dubai is a great city but i wouldn't say its set up for people to retire here.
The $2500 - per annum ? Its almost impossible to compare a national health service with a private medical scheme because as we all know EVERYONE in the UK is covered with no limits at all on treatments, even in the US they struggle to provide similar cover as insurance companies are very reluctant to lay themselves open to claims of (for example) a kidney failure where 40 years of thrice weekly dialysis may be required - you also have to factor in that a wage earner in a household of two adults and two children has health cover for all of them at no extra cost to his normal NIS contribution - try that with a private provider !
Deductions on a monthly salary of £2500 (£30k pa) are approx £357 income tax and £220 NIS, if we take the old rule of thumb that NIS was introduced to cover health and pension then a person on £30k is paying £2600 per annum for complete unrestricted access to whatever healthcare they need for a whole family (if the only earner in the house) plus a retirement pension.
I have re-iterated this point time and time again with US citizens, usually Republicans who seem to believe that the UK runs some sort of communist society and who insist that they do not want "social medicine" in their great country and every time I ask them if their health insurance alternative is cheaper OR better (either will do) then I am always met with a stoney silence, its a real conversation stopper.
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
Post subject: Re: Should those with a income of more than 80k pay for scho
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:27 pm
Dally
International Chairman
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14845
JerryChicken wrote:The $2500 - per annum ? Its almost impossible to compare a national health service with a private medical scheme because as we all know EVERYONE in the UK is covered with no limits at all on treatments, even in the US they struggle to provide similar cover as insurance companies are very reluctant to lay themselves open to claims of (for example) a kidney failure where 40 years of thrice weekly dialysis may be required - you also have to factor in that a wage earner in a household of two adults and two children has health cover for all of them at no extra cost to his normal NIS contribution - try that with a private provider !
Deductions on a monthly salary of £2500 (£30k pa) are approx £357 income tax and £220 NIS, if we take the old rule of thumb that NIS was introduced to cover health and pension then a person on £30k is paying £2600 per annum for complete unrestricted access to whatever healthcare they need for a whole family (if the only earner in the house) plus a retirement pension.
I have re-iterated this point time and time again with US citizens, usually Republicans who seem to believe that the UK runs some sort of communist society and who insist that they do not want "social medicine" in their great country and every time I ask them if their health insurance alternative is cheaper OR better (either will do) then I am always met with a stoney silence, its a real conversation stopper.
I think £3,866 pa, not £2,600 based on DubaiRL's approx. earnings,
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