So the "Big 6" have effectively held the HM Govt to ransom and got away with it!
Prices will still go up, customers will still get shafted by the energy providers and in addition have to pay more tax to pay for the green levy which was meant to penalise the energy companies for not reducing carbon emissions.
When viewed in conjunction with water bills and the ridiculous cost of public transport (especially rail) people are now realising the folly of Thatcher's privatisation of the essential services.
Yes but don't forget, NPower have promised, the day after their 10.5% price rise, that they will not put up their prices again until 2015, unless prices go up again.
In other news I promise not to eat any more chocolate between now and christmas, unless I eat some more chocolate.
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Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
JerryChicken wrote:Yes but don't forget, NPower have promised, the day after their 10.5% price rise, that they will not put up their prices again until 2015, unless prices go up again...
Will that be the prices that they themselves set since, as Which? explains, they effectively sell to themselves?
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I hate to point out the blindingly obvious, but energy companies don't use energy - they make it.
The green levy was ALWAYS going to be passed onto customers. The aim isn't to penalise energy companies, but CAUSE price increases to make customers use less. The same is true for carbon trading. If the cost isn't passed onto consumers, they will carry on exactly as before, using just as much energy.
The reality is that most of the so-called carbon reduction benefits in Europe have come from crashing economies combined with subsidies to 'green' fuels. If you want cheap electricity, burn coal (the cheapest of all being brown coal, which is highly carbon-intensive). If you want green electricity, put up a windmill or solar panel - but accept the resulting significant price rise (plus indirect cost of subsidies). You cannot have your cake and eat it.
As for the rest of the thread, for the umpteenth time, most of the increase in wholesale prices is due to the UK's lack of self-sufficiency in fuel (and the increasing production costs of depleting fields) and the consequent requirement to buy gas from Russia etc. Privatisation, bonuses, profits, dividends etc are absolutely nothing to do with the reality of what's driving prices upwards.
BrisbaneRhino wrote:I hate to point out the blindingly obvious, but energy companies don't use energy - they make it.
Not all of them, and those who do sell to the domestic market are happy to keep separate their generating and retail businesses, to their advantage, so in reality, none of the domestic retailers "make" energy.
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
Joined: May 10 2002 Posts: 47951 Location: Die Metropole
BrisbaneRhino wrote:... As for the rest of the thread, for the umpteenth time, most of the increase in wholesale prices is due to the UK's lack of self-sufficiency in fuel (and the increasing production costs of depleting fields) and the consequent requirement to buy gas from Russia etc. Privatisation, bonuses, profits, dividends etc are absolutely nothing to do with the reality of what's driving prices upwards.
So Which? got it wrong, then?
"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller
"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant
"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
BrisbaneRhino wrote:I hate to point out the blindingly obvious, but energy companies don't use energy - they make it.
No they don't and if you believe that then you don't understand what energy is.
Gas, coal, oil etc are merely carriers of energy and the energy companies simply facilitate the carriage and sometimes convert, usually at a cost to efficiency
BrisbaneRhino wrote:The green levy was ALWAYS going to be passed onto customers. The aim isn't to penalise energy companies, but CAUSE price increases to make customers use less. The same is true for carbon trading. If the cost isn't passed onto consumers, they will carry on exactly as before, using just as much energy.
The green levies are not there to punish consumers (as the energy companies would have us think), they are there to pay for energy reduction techniques (better insulation etc), encourage the development of alternative technologies and offer transitional relief to those who are struggling to heat their homes.
BrisbaneRhino wrote:The reality is that most of the so-called carbon reduction benefits in Europe have come from crashing economies combined with subsidies to 'green' fuels. If you want cheap electricity, burn coal (the cheapest of all being brown coal, which is highly carbon-intensive). If you want green electricity, put up a windmill or solar panel - but accept the resulting significant price rise (plus indirect cost of subsidies). You cannot have your cake and eat it.
As for the rest of the thread, for the umpteenth time, most of the increase in wholesale prices is due to the UK's lack of self-sufficiency in fuel (and the increasing production costs of depleting fields) and the consequent requirement to buy gas from Russia etc. Privatisation, bonuses, profits, dividends etc are absolutely nothing to do with the reality of what's driving prices upwards.
How do you work out that brown coal is cheap? Tonne for tonne it may well be but not if calorific values are taken into account. Brown coal has a value of around 6.5 million BTU/tonne, anthracite (what this country was good at producing until the 1980s), has a value of around 25 million BTU/tonne
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BrisbaneRhino wrote:As for the rest of the thread, for the umpteenth time, most of the increase in wholesale prices is due to the UK's lack of self-sufficiency in fuel (and the increasing production costs of depleting fields) and the consequent requirement to buy gas from Russia etc. Privatisation, bonuses, profits, dividends etc are absolutely nothing to do with the reality of what's driving prices upwards.
Wholesale prices for Gas and Electricity are actually lower now then they were in 2008.
There was a big spike then but they fell back and while they have risen again they are still lower than in 2008. Yet for the last three years prices have gone up 10% a year. The green levy and rising wholesale prices are two things definitely not to blame.
It seems to be when wholesale prices fall we see little of the savings but when they rise by even a small amount we get an increase and then some from whatever level prices were at. There seems to be a constant upward trend in domestic energy bills to a degree not present in wholesale price rises.
BrisbaneRhino wrote:As for the rest of the thread, for the umpteenth time, most of the increase in wholesale prices is due to the UK's lack of self-sufficiency in fuel (and the increasing production costs of depleting fields) and the consequent requirement to buy gas from Russia etc. Privatisation, bonuses, profits, dividends etc are absolutely nothing to do with the reality of what's driving prices upwards.
Wholesale prices for Gas and Electricity are actually lower now then they were in 2008.
There was a big spike then but they fell back and while they have risen again they are still lower than in 2008. Yet for the last three years prices have gone up 10% a year. The green levy and rising wholesale prices are two things definitely not to blame.
It seems to be when wholesale prices fall we see little of the savings but when they rise by even a small amount we get an increase and then some from whatever level prices were at. There seems to be a constant upward trend in domestic energy bills to a degree not present in wholesale price rises.
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