FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Sin Bin Tory Britain 2013



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 205 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 ... 21  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Tory Britain 2013
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:34 pm 
International Board Member
Fringe Player
User avatar

Joined: Jul 23 2002
Posts: 625
Location: East Hull
Dally wrote:Talking of stats and polls The Guardian reports this morning that the Tories and Labour are now both on 37% in opinion polls - Tories having recovered a big chunk of their UKIP protest vote. So, as I said 2 Eds are destroying Labour's chances. We'll see a Tory landslide if there is any semblance of economic recovery.


Ipsos MORI/Standard – CON 29, LAB 40, LD 10, UKIP 12
17 Jul 2013

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Tory Britain 2013
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:41 pm 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds
Mintball wrote: We desperately need to tackle the housing crisis (I use that word deliberately) an then other things possibly become clearer and maybe even easier.


...and I've said it before and I'll say it again and again and again - from 1974 until 1985 when I left the industry I was employed by a large electrical contracting company (100+ employees in our Leeds office multiplied by offices all over the country) and during that time we never had anything less than ten (an arbitary number from my head but pretty much on the low side) house building or refurbishment projects on the go at any given time.

Some of those sites were for 300 to 500 dwellings, almost all were for local authority and housing associations and 100% of all of those were for rent.

Make a note of those years and check out which party(s) were in power - both Labour and Conservative is the correct answer and Wilson, Callaghan and even Thatcher were all committed to a continuous program of social house building and refurbishment in numbers that we can only dream of these days.

So what happened, was the country extremely wealthy during those 11 years, north sea oil income didn't really kick in until the end of the 70s so the answer is no, we had two recessions during that period, we had years and years of industrial unrest and a depressed economy, we had a steel strike one year that meant that our building trade ground to a halt - but still the housing program continued on a massive scale.


The only difference between then and now is political will, there was a need for social housing, low cost rental properties, even Thatcher saw that (initially), even her henchman Tebbit saw that if you wanted the unemployed to get on their bikes to find work, if you were closing steel and coal towns down then you'd better make sure that it was easy to source new social housing in another town when you told them to move on - even the most rabid of Tories understood that principal.

We could do it now, it would be private housing associations that did it, but we could do it right now, we could build hundreds of thousands of social housing units, we did it when the country was broke under Wilson and especially Callaghan, but we don't have the will to do it now, as a country we are so short sighted and morally bankrupt with greed that we don't even understand our own history.






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Tory Britain 2013
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:13 am 
International Chairman
International Chairman
User avatar

Joined: May 25 2002
Posts: 37704
Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
JerryChicken wrote:


We could do it now, it would be private housing associations that did it, but we could do it right now, we could build hundreds of thousands of social housing units, we did it when the country was broke under Wilson and especially Callaghan, but we don't have the will to do it now, as a country we are so short sighted and morally bankrupt with greed that we don't even understand our own history.


We were even more broke in 1945

Image

The direct and indirect benefits that another house-building boom would bring totally eclipse those projected for vanity projects like HS2 or Trident






The older I get, the better I was

Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."

cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Tory Britain 2013
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:12 am 
All Time Great
All Time Great
User avatar

Joined: May 10 2002
Posts: 47951
Location: Die Metropole
JerryChicken wrote:...and I've said it before and I'll say it again and again and again ...


:CLAP: :CLAP:






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Tory Britain 2013
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:38 am 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Feb 26 2002
Posts: 14522
Location: Online
JerryChicken wrote:...and I've said it before and I'll say it again and again and again ...

Indeed you have and you are absolutely right.
The twin problems of the housing shortage and the high cost of welfare are linked, both can be relieved by building social housing.
Add to that the boost to GDP and employment that building houses would bring and the tax-take to HMG would soar, thereby reducing the deficit as well.

Either Gideon must have missed the relevant lecture on his PPE course ... or he has an aversion to a) social housing being owned by local authorities and b) Keynesian economics.
I think we all know which is the case.






Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Tory Britain 2013
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:50 am 
All Time Great
All Time Great
User avatar

Joined: May 10 2002
Posts: 47951
Location: Die Metropole
El Barbudo wrote:... Either Gideon must have missed the relevant lecture on his PPE course ... or he has an aversion to a) social housing being owned by local authorities and b) Keynesian economics.
I think we all know which is the case.


Thing is, as Mr Chicken makes clear, it's not just Gidiot, is it? It's been successive governments since the 1980s.

The government may have other reasons for adhering to the orthodoxy, but ultimately it's simply a wider ideological issue of a belief that private is always better and preferable, and many of the public believe it too, because the bulk of the mainstream media has drip-fed them a diet of anti-public services stories for close on 30 years.






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Tory Britain 2013
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:00 am 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds
I think it would be almost impossible to go back to the 1970s/80s when every local authority had a properly funded housing department and many had their own direct works dept (they were in effect a building contractor), and politically it is completely off the menu for all three of the main parties.

But there is absolutely no reason why a government supported, even government funded program of low cost social housing cannot be provided and managed by private housing associations, there is a willingness for this both from the tenant and the landlords and the very, very limited supply of "forced by planning consents" social housing element to every new private house build project is always part-let, part-sold off-plan and its no coincidence that the "forced by planning" shared ownership part of every development is always built first.

What we need is the political will to fund these developments on a large scale just like their predecessors did - maybe they could search the archives to find out how it was funded ?






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Tory Britain 2013
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:06 am 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Feb 26 2002
Posts: 14522
Location: Online
El Barbudo, addressing Ajw1, wrote:Bearing in mind that there are 5 applicants for every vacancy, just how does reducing benefits "encourage" people back into work?
It could maybe encourage people to want a job more than they already wanted one ... but a bright spark like you should be able to see that's not the same thing as getting one.

Is it?


:WHISTLE:






Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Tory Britain 2013
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:10 am 
All Time Great
All Time Great
User avatar

Joined: May 10 2002
Posts: 47951
Location: Die Metropole
JerryChicken wrote:... What we need is the political will ...


Again, spot on.

JerryChicken wrote:... maybe they could search the archives to find out how it was funded ?


I suspect that few modern politicians care much for history. Wasn't it Tony Blair who (in)famously confessed that he wished he'd studied it? Yet even that subsequent admission provoked no admission that he had any regrets about Afghanistan or Iraq.






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Tory Britain 2013
PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:18 am 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Feb 26 2002
Posts: 14522
Location: Online
Mintball wrote:...Thing is, as Mr Chicken makes clear, it's not just Gidiot, is it? It's been successive governments since the 1980s.

The government may have other reasons for adhering to the orthodoxy, but ultimately it's simply a wider ideological issue of a belief that private is always better and preferable, and many of the public believe it too, because the bulk of the mainstream media has drip-fed them a diet of anti-public services stories for close on 30 years.

Indeed.
The Blair/Brown governments were terrified of appearing to be left wing, believing that the public would lose trust in them if they did, and, during the boom years, I guess the problem didn't appear to be as bad as it does now.
But sheer economics tells us it's desirable and do-able.






Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 205 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 ... 21  Next





It is currently Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:51 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 61 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:51 am
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
52m
IMG Score
Wigan Bull
85
57m
2025 Season tickets
Wigan Bull
26
Recent
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
karetaker
45
Recent
Film game
karetaker
6003
Recent
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Armavinit
2
Recent
2025 Kits
Armavinit
30
Recent
Salford placed in special measures
supercat
126
Recent
IMG scores
FIL
265
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Super League
FIL
33
2m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
2m
Rumours and signings v9
Big Steve
28923
3m
New Players
BigTime
150
3m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
4m
Shirt reveal coming soon
PopTart
59
5m
Rule Changes
mwindass
4
6m
Pre Season - 2025
Chris71
225
6m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
TitanicClown
4066
6m
2025 Season tickets
Wigan Bull
26
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Wigan warriors 2022 away shirt
WWste
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
TODAY
Rule Changes
mwindass
4
TODAY
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
TODAY
Fans Forum 12 Dec 11th
Dunkirk Spir
3
TODAY
Laurie Daley returns as NSW origin coach
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
BigTime
6
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
ColD
2
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
52m
IMG Score
Wigan Bull
85
57m
2025 Season tickets
Wigan Bull
26
Recent
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
karetaker
45
Recent
Film game
karetaker
6003
Recent
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Armavinit
2
Recent
2025 Kits
Armavinit
30
Recent
Salford placed in special measures
supercat
126
Recent
IMG scores
FIL
265
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Super League
FIL
33
2m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
2m
Rumours and signings v9
Big Steve
28923
3m
New Players
BigTime
150
3m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
4m
Shirt reveal coming soon
PopTart
59
5m
Rule Changes
mwindass
4
6m
Pre Season - 2025
Chris71
225
6m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
TitanicClown
4066
6m
2025 Season tickets
Wigan Bull
26
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Wigan warriors 2022 away shirt
WWste
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
TODAY
Rule Changes
mwindass
4
TODAY
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
TODAY
Fans Forum 12 Dec 11th
Dunkirk Spir
3
TODAY
Laurie Daley returns as NSW origin coach
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
BigTime
6
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
ColD
2
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.