Post subject: Re: No link between food banks and poverty
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:21 am
cod'ead
International Chairman
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
sally cinnamon wrote:<snip>
I'm still uncertain whether you are on one of your usual trolling/flaming exercises, if so, it's in particularly poor taste, even for your levels. But here's a guide to foodbanks (pdf),please read it and then come back with more supply/demand bollox.
Camoron has made great noise about the growth of foodbanks under Labour being higher than since 2010. Not too difficult a point to prove when you consider that the first foodbank opened in 1999, so the growth under Labour could be described as exponential if you take a zero base
sally cinnamon wrote:<snip>
I'm still uncertain whether you are on one of your usual trolling/flaming exercises, if so, it's in particularly poor taste, even for your levels. But here's a guide to foodbanks (pdf),please read it and then come back with more supply/demand bollox.
Camoron has made great noise about the growth of foodbanks under Labour being higher than since 2010. Not too difficult a point to prove when you consider that the first foodbank opened in 1999, so the growth under Labour could be described as exponential if you take a zero base
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
Post subject: Re: No link between food banks and poverty
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:50 pm
DaveO
Moderator
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
sally cinnamon wrote:Thats not quite what I mean - I was referring to unmet demand, ie where there is a demand but the supply isn't there to meet it or its too expensive so some people can't afford it. In the healthcare example, the free supply would increase uptake not because people thought "oh, may as well go to the doctors because its free" but because before people that were ill couldn't afford it anyway, so they were just doing without healthcare.
That is what I said but with the important caveat that they actually needed the health care. You are arguing people who don't need food banks will do so just because there is a supply of free food.
Quote:It's plausible that its the same situation with foodbanks. The figures being talked about here are the rise in uptake of food banks in the last two years, but we aren't told if there's been an increase in supply or not. It could easily have been the case that two years ago (remember this was already 3 years in to a major economic downturn) there were far more low income families that would have benefited from food banks than could be met by the food bank supply at the time. So obviously when you increase the supply you get more uptake.
If you are now arguing there are more people in need of food charity than could be met by the previous number of available food banks but now these demands can be met due to more food banks, that isn't the same thing as what was being suggested is it?
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Post subject: Re: No link between food banks and poverty
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:50 pm
El Barbudo
In The Arms of 13 Angels
Joined: Feb 26 2002 Posts: 14522 Location: Online
sally cinnamon wrote:...The figures being talked about here are the rise in uptake of food banks in the last two years, but we aren't told if there's been an increase in supply or not. It could easily have been the case that two years ago (remember this was already 3 years in to a major economic downturn) there were far more low income families that would have benefited from food banks than could be met by the food bank supply at the time...
Yes, I think that's the straw to which he is clinging to try and say it's not the benefit cuts that have driven the demand. He seems to have missed the point that, if people were already poor enough to need food banks (but weren't getting them) then cutting their benefits was still a callous act.
Basically, he's a mealy-mouthed dissembling 2@.
Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.
Post subject: Re: No link between food banks and poverty
Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:10 pm
cod'ead
International Chairman
Joined: May 25 2002 Posts: 37704 Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
El Barbudo wrote:Yes, I think that's the straw to which he is clinging to try and say it's not the benefit cuts that have driven the demand. He seems to have missed the point that, if people were already poor enough to need food banks (but weren't getting them) then cutting their benefits was still a callous act.
Basically, he's a mealy-mouthed dissembling 2@.
When we get politicians, who are so far detached from reality that they think nothing of making statements similar to Freud's, it is obvious that they really are not serving the nation.
I propose a return of The Golden Shot and the public can phone-in (on a premium rate line obviously) to guide "Bernie the Bolt" and he can cull the offender live on TV
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
The founder of multi-billion dollar Velocity Capital Management even derides his own son for volunteering at a shelter.
The caring face of capitalism eh?
The older I get, the better I was
Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."
cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan
The founder of multi-billion dollar Velocity Capital Management even derides his own son for volunteering at a shelter.
The caring face of capitalism eh?
Its fairly obvious that the bloke is mentally ill to the point of being delusional - I take my hat off to his son for his stance - why does that happen so often that the offspring feel a guilt for the self-interest money grabbing attitude of their "successful" parents, could it be that the younger generation experience more of real life in their school years than their delusional parents ever do ?
There's also a problem with the way that "successful" billionaires like him are reported with phrases like "billion dollar investment company" being used to put the owners of such businesses on a pedestal and an object to aspire to - whereas in reality we all know what happened to most of those billion dollar investment companies when the merry-go-round stopped working in 2007 and most of them were shown to be not just a smoke and mirror act but actually just made of smoke, one puff of wind and they were gone.
We currently have someone in this region, who was previously a customer of mine, who has built a business empire on property investment, been awarded various business "xxx of the year" type awards and held up as an example of someone to whom we should all aspire to in a TV's "Apprentice" sort of way - in a stupid decision a few years ago she decided to take on the local council in a high court action which she was advised at the time was unwinnable - she lost and the council successfully applied for a £2million interim legal cost payment against their estimated bill of £4mill, the highly prized, highly lauded property investment empire is now in the hands of administrators who are warning that no creditors will be paid - THATS the reality of what happens when the rug is pulled and multi-millionaires find that their reported fortunes were simply numbers on a sheet of paper with no relevance to the real world at all.
The founder of multi-billion dollar Velocity Capital Management even derides his own son for volunteering at a shelter.
The caring face of capitalism eh?
Its fairly obvious that the bloke is mentally ill to the point of being delusional - I take my hat off to his son for his stance - why does that happen so often that the offspring feel a guilt for the self-interest money grabbing attitude of their "successful" parents, could it be that the younger generation experience more of real life in their school years than their delusional parents ever do ?
There's also a problem with the way that "successful" billionaires like him are reported with phrases like "billion dollar investment company" being used to put the owners of such businesses on a pedestal and an object to aspire to - whereas in reality we all know what happened to most of those billion dollar investment companies when the merry-go-round stopped working in 2007 and most of them were shown to be not just a smoke and mirror act but actually just made of smoke, one puff of wind and they were gone.
We currently have someone in this region, who was previously a customer of mine, who has built a business empire on property investment, been awarded various business "xxx of the year" type awards and held up as an example of someone to whom we should all aspire to in a TV's "Apprentice" sort of way - in a stupid decision a few years ago she decided to take on the local council in a high court action which she was advised at the time was unwinnable - she lost and the council successfully applied for a £2million interim legal cost payment against their estimated bill of £4mill, the highly prized, highly lauded property investment empire is now in the hands of administrators who are warning that no creditors will be paid - THATS the reality of what happens when the rug is pulled and multi-millionaires find that their reported fortunes were simply numbers on a sheet of paper with no relevance to the real world at all.
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
Post subject: Re: No link between food banks and poverty
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:58 pm
Hull White Star
Player Coach
Joined: Nov 19 2005 Posts: 2359 Location: Marys Place, near the River, in Nebraska, Waitin' on A Sunny Day
Tories arguing against all the proof and from the people who know best??? Lord Fraud would do well reading this article and taking it in rather than being in denial.
Tories arguing against all the proof and from the people who know best??? Lord Fraud would do well reading this article and taking it in rather than being in denial.
A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loves himself.
When you rescue a dog, you gain a heart for life.
Handle every situation like a dog. If you can't Eat it or Chew it. Pee on it and Walk Away.
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. " Anuerin Bevan
Post subject: Re: No link between food banks and poverty
Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:08 pm
JerryChicken
International Star
Joined: Jul 09 2012 Posts: 3605 Location: Leeds
Hull White Star wrote:Tories arguing against all the proof and from the people who know best??? Lord Fraud would do well reading this article and taking it in rather than being in denial.
Hull White Star wrote:Tories arguing against all the proof and from the people who know best??? Lord Fraud would do well reading this article and taking it in rather than being in denial.
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
I think you're right, Osborne will be perfectly sanguine about it and might even see it it as validation of his policies. Watch out for spin about food banks being the cause of poverty.
I think you're right, Osborne will be perfectly sanguine about it and might even see it it as validation of his policies. Watch out for spin about food banks being the cause of poverty.
Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.
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